208. Transgender Truths - Coach Lee Hopkins

Coach Lee

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Coach Lee Hopkins is a transgender man who spent the majority of his life feeling alone and misunderstood. Thinking he just hadn’t found his tribe yet, he made a couple of major moves across the country, only to find that he still wasn’t making friends easily wherever he went. He recognized that the problem was stemming from within him, and he bravely did the inner work to recognize and resolve the issues that were blocking him from connecting with others. Now he is passionate about helping others through their own self-imposed, hidden blockages which are keeping them from forging meaningful relationships.

This is an important episode not only because of Coach Lee's story and experience, but for the wisdom he brings forth toward the end about allowing grace for everyone through our communication with each other.

  • What small steps did Coach Lee do to draw more connections and friendships into his life?
  • How did his experiencing his greatest fear (rejection) actually help him enormously?
  • What benefits have been experienced through transitioning to being male, and what things didn’t work out the way he expected?
  • Coach Lee beautifully highlights the importance of asking questions so we can better know and learn from each other, rather than being offended that someone doesn’t already have the answers or being too scared to ask questions.

www.patternsofpossibility.com

IG: @patternsofpossibility

00:00.00
karagoodwin
Hello and welcome to the meditation conversation I'm your host Kara Goodwin and today I'm delighted to be joined by coach lee hopkins coach Lee is a transgender man who helps people create lasting friendships. After struggling with loneliness most of his life. He's tried various ways to resolve it including moving across the us to find his tribe and fit in. He's learned that the key to creating meaningful relationships is not fitting in or finding your tribe. It's about attracting your vibe. So he'll show us how this is possible for everyone. So welcome coach Lee I'm so excited to talk to you today.

00:43.74
Coach Lee
Thank you so much for having me care I'm really excited to have this conversation too.

00:48.45
karagoodwin
So tell us a bit about your journey and how you ended up in this position of helping so many other people in their journeys.

00:57.41
Coach Lee
Yeah, well I've found that most of my life I've been struggling to make friendships I grew up in a small town in Ohio and I noticed that just about everybody had some kind of close friend friendship or or something and I feel like I was on the outside but I always I was always told that. I need to find my tribe I'm just not in the right place. So I go to college and I meet different people from different places backgrounds even some international students and I'm like this is it this is going to be amazing I'm going to find the people that really like me and I really like them and I've made some nice friends. But. It still wasn't exactly what I thought it was going to be so then I figured well it's the entire state of Ohio I have to leave that place I'm going to go to California and I'm going to connect with some people in California and sure enough I did what's that.

01:39.19
karagoodwin
Are. Now. that's logical yeah that's logical I would think I would think the same thing to be honest, being that I'm an Indiana I can completely I can completely relate to that. Yeah.

01:56.90
Coach Lee
To the yeah you know? Well how even has this theme nothing to see since 18 oh 3 So ah, don't.

02:03.99
karagoodwin
Um, oh my gosh. Oh that's money me. Ah.

02:08.71
Coach Lee
Don't come from me Ohio wins please but I went to the California and I found the same thing that I found in Ohio it was like this connection and and not the close friendships that I thought I I needed I thought I was going to get from that. But then I thought well.

02:14.68
karagoodwin
Oh no hidden.

02:25.30
Coach Lee
Okay, there were a lot of people who started to know me in California I had like a little mini circle of of friends and people who knew me but they didn't really know me know me so I thought well I was hiding something from them and I thought it was the fact that I wanted to transition but I didn't know how to talk to people about that I was afraid to share that with others. So then instead of talking about it or doing anything in California about it I just left the entire state I had an opportunity to leave so I moved to Chicago where I am now I met the trans people the queer people that gave me the language to put into. To to make this transition reality for me I had the job that paid for for the transition I had everything that I needed even Kaitlyn Jenner was coming up at this time so I had all the acceptance and and I make this transition and I still feel absolutely lonely I feel terrible. Feel like I still can't be my authentic self with people I started to hide the fact that I was trans and I just felt so just like what's what's going on what's going on here and so I realized that it didn't have the answer The only thing I really knew it was that I was the problem.

03:23.80
karagoodwin
1 more im measable.

03:33.90
Coach Lee
And I wasn't making the friendships but I didn't have the answer So I went to therapy to get some insight and I discovered that there is something that I'm doing because I'm in charge of my own behavior I'm in charge of my own feelings and how I how I show up in the world. So There's something that I'm doing that might be causing the disconnect with other people and once I figured out exactly what it was I was like this is great. This feels great and so that's how I got to the coaching I felt that for myself I started the connectors other other people I started to. Be more open and there were specific actions and behaviors that I was doing and I realized that I can share that with other people because it feels so Great. Why not share it with other people. Everybody wants to feel connected and less lonely and so this is why I just can't stop talking about it.

04:23.22
karagoodwin
Um, that is amazing and I I really commend you for doing that work because it's really brave to be like wait a minute. Okay.

04:35.54
Coach Lee
Oh.

04:39.60
karagoodwin
But it's It's so much easier to be like it's them. It's them. It's them. You know it's outside. It's it's where I am It's the you know it's my family. It's whatever and it is like as we continue to grow I mean.

04:41.77
Coach Lee
Oh yeah. E.

04:53.66
karagoodwin
In general just across the board. Whatever it is that we continue to bump up against in our life and our journey. It's so it's so easy for us to be like here. It is again. Why are people so like this you know and.

05:06.88
Coach Lee
Exactly.

05:10.24
karagoodwin
And then it's like wait a minute to be able to have the maturity and the the commitment to your own to creating the life that you want it's It's so important. It's so brave to be like wait a minute I need to turn this focus.

05:21.22
Coach Lee
Um.

05:29.10
Coach Lee
M.

05:30.80
karagoodwin
You know I've got to look inside of me and make some changes in here. So it's really, it's really commendable. Is there anything that you want to share in terms of kind of what you needed to um what what sort of was kind of that.

05:33.67
Coach Lee
Absolutely.

05:48.74
karagoodwin
Clicking point that aha where it was like oh this is something I can do within me to change the external in terms of being able to connect with people easier.

05:58.70
Coach Lee
Absolutely you know there was ah it was a process to try and figure out exactly what that was I just knew initially from therapy that I had to do something different. And I thought I was doing something different from moving from Ohio to California to Chicago and I also moved within those places in between like on average I guess every fifteen months I was moving somewhere else because of course Kara it was the people everybody else was causing my problem not me what's it.

06:24.39
karagoodwin
Yeah, yeah, right? yeah.

06:31.20
Coach Lee
Everybody else. So I was like well what could I do differently? Okay, while I'm not moving again. Chicago is like the second largest city in the United States I'm not moving again. There's no reason for me to move again. What am I doing what can I do? What can I change and it started with the little things I'm telling these are really small things that change like well.

06:35.21
karagoodwin
Are.

06:50.85
Coach Lee
1 thing I was doing was moving from place to place to place and when I started to really put it together I'm like well I never make my place feel like home. Why don't I do that why don't I put some pictures on my wall and start believing that I'm going to move out right away then there's isn't something else I don't do um.

07:00.60
karagoodwin
Um.

07:09.94
Coach Lee
I Don't cook for myself I'll cook for people if I know they're coming over and I might try and find something extravagant. But I don't treat myself. Well maybe I can do something about that and it was like the unsuspecting things that made me feel better about myself so that I can. So.

07:24.57
karagoodwin
Oh the unsuspecting things. Oh yeah.

07:29.92
Coach Lee
Yeah, it was like just the little mindful things that I've done for myself and it it made me feel better about myself and that made me feel like people saw me better or I could talk to I feel better about talking to other people about me because I felt more comfortable with myself and that was just one of the things that that I did. For myself. So it was a change within it was all directed at me like no one else had to do anything different in my life. It was me and the way I treated myself when I felt better about myself and the connections that I made or talking to other people I felt better but that and so that in therapy also having somebody. Being able to help me process and see that with me um, helped me prepare for one of these big events that happened in my life because I realized that I was just afraid of rejection it was a rejection I was afraid of so I ran and I ran and I ran and I ran and I tried to make sure that i. Would create a space in which no one would reject me so I turned into a people pleaser and realizing that I don't want to do that either that doesn't feel really comfortable or connecting and so I'm going to get to this big change that happened in my life where I transitioned so this is the story I was. I've already transitioned I am as you see me now I was as you see me now this is about five or six years ago in Chicago and I'm trying to make friends and I have a new positive mindset. So I go to a comedy club and I'm very excited I'm like I'm going to meet somebody I'm gonna make friends. We're gonna have a great time.

09:00.91
Coach Lee
And I lean the I meet somebody I talk to them and I lean the conversation towards lgpdqueue stuff because I'm curious if they're comfortable with me and so forth and they had mentioned that they had never seen a trans person before they don't understand the process. They have no idea why anybody would ever want to do this. So I thought well we had a great experience in the connection together. We've been talking for the last twenty thirty minutes and so I'm going to open up and be authentic to you to share my authenticity and I'm going to fill this knowledge gap for you and we are going to be best of friends. So I tell them I'm trans. Like excited waiting for his response and he just kind of something went off in his head like alarm bells or something and he was just like and he retreated he is gone he left he said nothing else to me and nothing else I'm not kidding and I'm telling you this in a.

09:49.19
karagoodwin
Um, oh you're kidding. Wow.

09:55.51
Coach Lee
Ah, gratitude and form of gratitude grateful tone that this happened because I'd been running from that for my entire life and there it was it happened to me right in front of my face and I was absolutely devastated at the time but it was important for me to have that experience. It was important for me to have that experience because.

09:58.65
karagoodwin
Um.

10:14.95
Coach Lee
I didn't want to I didn't want to take care of him and I didn't want to like to to try and create this friendship that he didn't want like take care of the fact that he had feelings about this and try to change it and convince him that I was a good person and and so Forth. You know some of the. I Just didn't really want to do that and neither did he didn't want anything else to do with me and my desperation I would have thought that I wanted to change I would have in that beck at that time I probably would have dropped everything and tried to talk to him and tried to change myself for him and that was all the work that I'd done from.

10:36.31
karagoodwin
Warm us.

10:53.66
Coach Lee
Liking myself going down the drain because I really wanted this relationship with the I thought I really wanted a relationship with somebody a friendship with somebody and having them reject me flat out like that was painful but I just didn't die. So I learned from it. It was okay.

11:09.13
karagoodwin
And.

11:12.18
Coach Lee
It was okay so I think you know Kara the big part of getting coaching and me helping people is working through that piece right there because that piece is very necessary for us and any experience we have is to learning to deal with rejection and seeing but. The benefit the gratitude of having the rejection.

11:33.31
karagoodwin
That is so insightful. Um, so it's interesting I mean you faced your your biggest fear Really, you had like and it's amazing that you have that you know that you're able to cultivate this gratitude for it. It's so healthy. Um, it's interesting to hear you talk about how.

11:45.45
Coach Lee
And.

11:50.51
karagoodwin
You didn't feel the desire to change him I'm curious about how you were able to like process that within yourself or or how that how that made you feel and and how long it may have made you um. How long it may have taken you to get over it. You know or not to get over it but like to get to the point where you could be grateful.

12:11.86
Coach Lee
Um, it took it took some years because I'll tell you I'll tell you the Truth Kara after the show I was absolutely devastated I was in a mix of sadness and anger and here I I leave the club and I try and laugh.

12:21.96
karagoodwin
In. Is length.

12:27.46
Coach Lee
A comedy show so we were that intermission and I try to laugh and I try to be like um you know La La and and then but I leave and I'm angry I'm angry I'm frustrated and I'm like just oh here I am moving from place to place to place.

12:35.94
karagoodwin
I bought. Yeah.

12:43.55
Coach Lee
And again as these people who don't want to see me as my authentic truth and care about me. Nobody likes me and I just hate everything and it took some talking and some reflection and and deep thought to get through that Because. After I had this intense emotion the feeling of rejection the sadness of letting go of the fact that I thought I made a friend this thing that I'd been looking for for for decades I thought I had made somebody close well was going to because I changed my mindset I did the thing that was different I did what was different I changed my mindset.

13:14.98
karagoodwin
You need.

13:18.37
Coach Lee
Went in and I talked that was upbeat and Boom I get rejected and it's just but I realized that I don't want to I Really don't want to change that person and they don't want to change me I don't want them to change me. After talking. So This is where Therapy helped after talking it Out. It's like well do I Really want to be around someone who doesn't want to know me think about that kind of energy that you've put in and oh by the way Lee you've done this many times before as a people Pleaser. You have tried you have changed and you have tried to be somebody else because you didn't want them to reject you and now you're fully being yourself. This is the step that you need to take you're fully being yourself and authentic. With people by saying that you're trans into some people just aren't going to like you or some people just aren't going to connect with you and see how that's okay, see how you didn't you know, get I don't know didn't really take your breath away in that sense.

14:25.88
karagoodwin
My name.

14:28.92
Coach Lee
So it was a time in the reflection and and talking it out.

14:34.29
karagoodwin
That's amazing and and it's so it's so it's so hard to go through rejection in in any form and it's hard to remember too that it's.

14:39.99
Coach Lee
In.

14:48.63
karagoodwin
It's really not especially in a situation like that. How it's not about you. You know what? I mean like you represent something that they haven't been able to ah reconcile within themselves and that is.

14:53.91
Coach Lee
Um, right? and.

15:02.22
Coach Lee
To burn.

15:03.93
karagoodwin
That is. It's so hard I mean it's because it feels so personal. You know it's like oh my God They don't like me but it's like wait. They have work to do. They have pieces of themselves that they haven't been able to heal and reconcile in order to be able to.

15:06.77
Coach Lee
New.

15:23.70
karagoodwin
Accept that into their lives.

15:23.74
Coach Lee
Right? exactly and I'm glad you brought that up because that is one of the bigger lessons to learn about rejection is that it's not about you and because they have their own experience to to go through if we go back to the exchange and we look at it now where. Where um, I'm feeling more healed and perhaps they are because it was years ago that might have been an experience that was just absolutely jarring for them. But of course I think maybe of course it was They didn't say a word to me. They just left. It was a feeling that they couldn't express to me. So I think it wasn't about me for sure. Whatever happened it wasn't about me but because I went through this process I can appreciate that I have when I have to reject people when I have to do that I know because I was in their shoes I was the person to reject it I know when I have to say no to someone. It's not because of them. It's because there's something going on with me and whatever pain that I think I'm going to cause them for rejecting them. They will learn from it. They will get over it I get over but they will they will learn from it. They'll come to a place of gratitude like I did it's necessary. It's necessary to happen.

16:24.90
karagoodwin
Um, and.

16:30.13
karagoodwin
Are.

16:38.27
karagoodwin
Um.

16:40.45
Coach Lee
It's necessary for me because I don't want to whatever I have going on with me I'm not going to try and project it on them. There's something going on with me and have to honor that and be more more conscious of myself.

16:51.60
karagoodwin
Well and I'm sure that it also it definite I can't imagine that it wouldn't change the way that you that you interact with people when you do need to say no you know rather you know because you've got that extra compassion. That's the thing that happens when.

17:02.72
Coach Lee
Absolutely.

17:09.98
karagoodwin
We go through trauma when we have when we have had our own experiences of rejection or of abuse or of you know, whatever it is that we're carrying that was so difficult for us. When we have when we're put in a position where we have to um deal with somebody where we could go that we could go the way you know could because how many times do we see it where it's like oh well somebody rejected me because they saw me as a threat or different or whatever.

17:41.89
Coach Lee
And.

17:44.58
karagoodwin
Now I see that in somebody else I'm going to make them feel the way that I felt now I've got the power in that you know now the roles are reversed somehow and I can make they're in a vulnerable position and I could choose to to flee.

17:49.16
Coach Lee
And.

17:58.79
karagoodwin
To reject them outright to to make them because then now somebody else now. It's not me feeling that way. It's them. But it's like when we've gone through that so often we don't have that inclination.

18:02.22
Coach Lee
In.

18:11.75
karagoodwin
It's it's more of like oh I've been here and let me make make a different choice so that that that person doesn't have to go through what I went through.

18:20.11
Coach Lee
Absolutely absolutely like um, feeling that and recognizing that you feel that recognizing that you feel like oh this is ah this is a pattern of behavior I'm here again and I want to try and do something different like I've noticed that this has happened to me.

18:29.45
karagoodwin
Me and.

18:36.60
Coach Lee
And so I want to make it different for this person and what can I do to make it different for this person and how does it feel for me to make it different. So I definitely do my best to use my words to leave people with some sort of closure I suppose if I have to reject them.

18:39.61
karagoodwin
Yeah.

18:50.95
karagoodwin
And.

18:55.80
Coach Lee
So that they can understand that dude it's not about you. It's really about me and I'm set I'm least at the very least I want to show some compassion to you I don't want to try and hurt you yeah.

18:57.98
karagoodwin
Are.

19:03.63
karagoodwin
Right? Yeah so I'm curious about what when we've talked touched on this a bit but I don't know if there's anything more you want to talk about about the ways that becoming a transgender man has made things easy for you easier for you and in what ways it. Has not resolved what you thought it would resolve.

19:26.33
Coach Lee
Well it made things easier for me in the sense that since I'm a really curious person. Um I had the opportunity to live life as a female and as a male like of so I've had interaction with people who.

19:35.58
karagoodwin
Like.

19:41.79
Coach Lee
Treated me differently because I was a Cis man Cis woman and but also a Cis male so I remember sitting this is just a random thing that popped into my head but I had a corporate job and I sat in ah I had I was on the team I was the only female on the team before I transitioned. So. I'm sitting in the room and I remember saying something and nobody heard it I don't know why but no and then the guys heard it and then some other guy says the same thing and they like oh it's a great idea. It's a great idea I'm like what's what's does that what the that happen. Okay, so then I transitioned.

20:05.54
karagoodwin
My world.

20:11.93
karagoodwin
Out Listen Yeah yeah, yeah, oh.

20:20.72
Coach Lee
And there was another female on the team. So So I've transitioned I look as I am now I have the voice and everything and I say something what they say something and I hear them I know I hear them and I back them up and I kind of reflect back What they say. And they're like great idea Lee Great idea and I'm like what what just happened are we here What this is now I bring that up because I get to have this experience of knowing what it is to be the person who said the thing and the person who wasn't heard and all that so I get more.

20:38.82
karagoodwin
Oh my God yes.

20:55.62
Coach Lee
Compassion I suppose and I've had many experiences like that where I could see where the males are coming from when I can see where yeah the women are coming from in this experience so that gives me more opportunity to connect with other people and be more understanding I get that's a plus but ah, a minus I guess would be that.

20:57.68
karagoodwin
Um, with whom.

21:07.72
karagoodwin
In.

21:16.80
Coach Lee
I'm new. It was in like I'm a new concept I'm a new I'm a new concept kind of thing like ah oh well, people don't really know quite that much about Trans we're getting more information but what is it like to be Trans and what are your experiences and I don't have anybody to talk to about that myself.

21:17.33
karagoodwin
Ah, right, go up.

21:28.77
karagoodwin
Well I'm sorry coach Lee can I as I'm sorry can I ask you a question because there is something that you said and I wanted to get clarification because I want to be really cool and know what it is that you said but I think you said a Cis man and assist woman.

21:33.90
Coach Lee
Sorry yeah, please.

21:46.33
Coach Lee
Oh ah was I apologize to you I'm very grateful I'm very grateful that you asked. Yeah, so assist man and the Cis woman The Cisgen is C I s C I S and it is if you are born. Whatever gender, you're born at birth.

21:47.25
karagoodwin
I Don't know what that is I'm sorry yeah.

21:57.84
karagoodwin
Okay.

22:04.32
Coach Lee
Is that or you're assigned at Birth is what you continue to present as so so yes, so I believe that you're a cisgendered woman. You were born as female and you still present as female. You don't suggest anything else. Yeah, and so.

22:08.90
karagoodwin
Okay.

22:16.65
karagoodwin
I see Okay, okay.

22:22.16
Coach Lee
Trans would be something along the lines of changing or presenting as we say presenting as because not all Trans people seem to go through this physical transition that I've gone through. Yeah oh absolutely I'm glad that you asked you know.

22:27.80
karagoodwin
Presenting because.

22:33.10
karagoodwin
I see. Okay, thank you for clarifying that.

22:41.30
Coach Lee
And ah on that note of you asking some people ask questions about Trans people that that are really they have curiosities rather about Trans people and I appreciate that when they direct them to me because I.

22:52.60
karagoodwin
You.

22:59.68
karagoodwin
Um.

23:00.50
Coach Lee
Was once on the other what I'm trying to get at is I understand exactly where you're coming from about the curiosity I remember just because I'm Trans I don't know a whole lot about I don't know everything about some Trans people in their own transitions I remember when I had transitioned myself.

23:12.20
karagoodwin
Will roll off.

23:18.26
Coach Lee
And I met another Trans person who had gone from female to male like me and then started wearing heavy makeup and feminine clothing and I was just like I I don't quite understand but I want to ask questions but then those questions weren't allowed.

23:31.20
karagoodwin
And we.

23:37.44
Coach Lee
And that was frustrating for me or I was I was kind of I wasn't saying the right things and I wasn't doing the right things to understand what it means to be on the side of wanting to know about having the curiosity about me and I want to treat that with the compassion that it deserves so that you'll ask questions and so that you'll know me because that's what I really want.

23:37.94
karagoodwin
I'm hoping.

23:57.70
Coach Lee
Other people to do So That's what I want everyone to do. But I think absolutely I Guess that's yes, please yeah see I would I would.

23:59.51
karagoodwin
Well thank you for that I appreciate it I'm like do I ask I don't want to be stupid. Yeah or inconsiderate or yeah, yeah.

24:15.26
Coach Lee
If I could just take this moment and draw it back to the the place where I was rejected that person that just not said anything to me and they left because they were so so shocked about me being Trans We Both missed an opportunity to do an exchange of information of of connection. Like they could learn more about a Trans person directly from the mouth of the Trans person and I could have learned more about what was frightening or what was upsetting from them. We could have had an exchanged there. But so many times we just do not have the words or or have the emotional capacity. To recognize that this is a valuable moment to actually do an exchange like I remember asking some people questions and they felt attacked like it's not my job to teach you about me but I'm like it is a wonderful opportunity for you to share. Why don't you.

25:11.87
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, yeah in.

25:12.55
Coach Lee
Please Do I'm curious about you. Um, and so I felt like that that compassion that compassion is something that came even more transitioning because I started to have more questions about people who were like me but getting rejected by people who were like me isn't. As far as being Trans and then as far as being a black person and then as far as anything else we feel that kind of rejection, but there's always a wonderful opportunity for us to learn about each other to share that information but it only comes if the opportunity only comes if if we're willing to.

25:43.26
karagoodwin
So you.

25:51.81
Coach Lee
To share and have that emotional capacity for it.

25:54.24
karagoodwin
Yeah, Thank you for that I think that that is so important and I think that that we can be very clunky in our in our discussions because one you know it might be that I mean of course. There are people who are insensitive and they don't mean well. But I think that so often people do mean well but we can contort anything.

26:14.87
Coach Lee
Um, and.

26:21.16
karagoodwin
If we want to be insulted or whatever then we we can find that you know in not just in in the lgbtq community or or anything I mean we can find that with anything.

26:34.39
Coach Lee
Absolutely.

26:36.50
karagoodwin
Or we can't choose exactly what you're saying where it's like okay that wasn't the best way to say it. But I'm going to go with they just don't know better yet and I can help them to give them the experience Of. Connecting and kind of highlighting like wait. We. Don't say that or that that hurts my feelings because of this and you know it's It's kind of easy to say that in a neutral you know when we haven't been triggered and you know we're kind of talking theoretically. But um, but I I think that I see this so much.

27:08.21
Coach Lee
Um.

27:11.45
karagoodwin
Across the board just in general where it's like we you know we we want. You know it's like we could somebody hasn't said something in the right way and I you know I do this from time to time This is done to me where it's like well you know I could that's could be.

27:25.97
Coach Lee
Um, yeah, yeah.

27:28.79
karagoodwin
Kind of insulting you know and and ah but let's just say you know that I've done that too where like I didn't mean it the way it came out but it came out really cluny. Um, and so I do think that if we can extend the benefit of the doubt.

27:37.78
Coach Lee
Um, yeah, a.

27:47.57
karagoodwin
In general, you know if we can practice that within ourselves to say like okay let me just kind of extend and try to meet them and and kind of err on the side of Grace and the benefit of the doubt. Um.

27:56.68
Coach Lee
Gad. Absolutely yeah I Really like I Really like this word clunky because the mechanics of the situation I mean it's not going to be smooth because a lot of people don't have the we don't have the same experience. We don't have same words and.

28:13.12
karagoodwin
You.

28:18.27
Coach Lee
The same feelings about the things and so I think allowing for some of that clunkiness to to come through and not being afraid of it like being able to hold on to myself and my feelings and recognizing that. Oh okay, they don't really have the right words or they don't know how but they're curious and I'm going to help them understand my experience. Because they are asking. They just don't know how they just don't know. Yeah, so I mean they just don't Know. Of course they wouldn't Know. Of course they wouldn't know because they don't really know us know us you know so they're asking. Yeah.

28:37.78
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, you my master really.

28:47.46
karagoodwin
Right? Yeah and for and for everybody you know it's like somebody's just got their frame of reference and it may be that you know they've had a lot of experience in but we you know we all hold our own pieces of. This bigger puzzle of what's happening here and so everybody has the opportunity to know really well and dive deeply into certain areas of life. You know they may know a ton about animals and.

29:05.52
Coach Lee
In.

29:20.80
karagoodwin
Or insects or you know I mean just like because they've that's where they've spent their time and their energy and they've like really gone deeply into that. But then if you want to talk about like you know space you know or or whatever it's like they have no idea about like different galaxies Or. Um, I mean just as an example, it's like there's only so much time and focus and it doesn't mean that that they don't that they reject that their space or whatever but they just don't have a frame of reference. Um, so I mean just to make it like a very benign example, but it's kind of like if we're afraid.

29:50.18
Coach Lee
In.

29:58.61
karagoodwin
To be if we're afraid that we're going to. You know say the wrong thing or we don't want to like get ourselves backed into a corner or whatever then we're you know it's like well I better I better just play it safe and not not dive into that topic so that you know and then we're just.

30:16.62
Coach Lee
Set. Yes.

30:17.27
karagoodwin
Continuing to keep that Gulf divide. You know we're going to have this hasm between you know the people who know and the people who don't ah you know and where it's like well I can't get over there because I I don't want to say the wrong thing or um.

30:34.50
Coach Lee
Exactly exactly and then we remain curious and we make up thoughts or we make up ah experiences about the people who are on the other side of the chasm because we don't really know and we're afraid to ask so we won't ask.

30:49.92
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, yeah.

30:50.39
Coach Lee
And we continue to be separated and so you know to your point I believe that it's really important for us to be comfortable with that clunkiness I like the I Love this clunky word I'm going to keep that in my vocabulary.

31:02.12
karagoodwin
Are good good.

31:06.43
Coach Lee
But I love this I love this because I think it describes it very well. It's it's just not as smooth and to recognize how it feels for me to hear somebody ask me a question and on my my lives like ah. I like I go live on Tiktok and some people ask some random questions about trans people that may furrow some brows or may make people feel uncomfortable but I treat them as just curiosities and I will answer them because I feel that I have my own sense of self and if they ask me questions like are you a boy or a girl. Well all right. It may feel like it's a question in bad faith but I'm not going to treat it that way I'm going to treat it as if somebody has clunky words and are not quite sure because I have no idea who's in the other side and I do not want to make that chasm bigger and I think that's a key that.

31:54.33
karagoodwin
In.

31:58.97
Coach Lee
The key to creating friendships and developing connections with people is to be comfortable with well. Okay I am me and I have all this knowledge and I'm able to share with you What I can and if you don't have the correct words that's going to make it that's going to feel smooth then. You know you may not want to ask me but I want you to ask because you have that curiosity Anyway I Want to close the Gap I want us to be closer and connected together and by doing that I realized that well if you don't have the mechanics like I said that's okay, but I can kind of filter Out. Who I want to be close to me. So If you're a person who doesn't have the mechanics that's great I'm glad to help fill that gap for you but you can get as close as I want you to and this is the bod as close as we're going to get.

32:49.43
karagoodwin
Yes, well this is what I love so much. The overarching um message that I receive from your journey is this getting more and more and more into your own center where you know you.

33:03.14
Coach Lee
In.

33:07.13
karagoodwin
Like you know who you are and then you can stand front I mean it's like kind of making me a little bit teary but like you can stand in that and then it's. You can own like okay, you're you're stronger and stronger and stronger in who you are, but it's that it's first standing in who you are and like knowing this is me that's that's the external and and what comes from the external.

33:27.85
Coach Lee
Um, absolutely.

33:40.68
karagoodwin
Is I I can't control that but I can only control staying here in my center knowing who I am being confident in who I am and knowing that that that is what's going to bring to me the right people and it's going to.. It's going to affect. What I'm experiencing and how I'm experiencing what comes from outside of me.

34:02.18
Coach Lee
Absolutely that is exactly what I'm trying to express here and I think that it is the sense of self like stop worrying about what other people are thinking how they're feeling and what they're going to do as it as it relates to how I'm going to feel about myself.

34:11.38
karagoodwin
Likes what happening now. But.

34:20.69
karagoodwin
And it's happening.

34:22.50
Coach Lee
If I pay attention to what other people are thinking and feeling about me I'm going to be stuck because there are so many other people and we pulled in different ways and and be unsure about who I am and what I want be reacting to everything all the time believing that somebody is trying to hurt me when they're just trying to get information. They're curious and they want to know me so.

34:38.88
karagoodwin
E.

34:41.66
Coach Lee
Having that sense of self it really helped me create connections with other people and if I could I would even step take it a step further and talk about my truth and what I believe is my truth and everyone else's truth is different for them. But.

34:51.69
karagoodwin
And so.

34:59.78
Coach Lee
Truth is your feelings about a specific event action or or a person and expressing your truth is how you feel about that event action or person. Whatever it is and. When we try and hide that or we we feel something like instantly we feel something and and we keep it with us and we're looking around at other people and like is it okay to express This is it Okay is it good Hu I don't I don't know um and then if we do express it. And people like look at us. No No that That's okay and it's okay, you take it back and you put it back inside your chest and you just keep it close to you. You keep that that feeling that truth close to you but really, it's the truth of who you are and that will always come Out. You have to get an opportunity to to express it and let the world respond to it.

35:54.42
karagoodwin
And move it.

35:56.43
Coach Lee
You might want to change how you react or what you do or or maybe change who you who express your truth to you might want to change you express your truth to but it it is always your truth and it always is yours to express. We get in trouble when we start denying that and that was a ah.

36:12.40
karagoodwin
And.

36:16.16
Coach Lee
Big theme also in my life particularly joy expressing Joy. That's one of the things that we hide we hide we hide we hide and I encourage everyone to express joy about whatever it is that you want to express joy about there's so many people who see you express the joy and they're like no, you can't do that. How dare you never ever ever ever and you take it and you put it back to your close to your chest but there are people out there who are waiting for you to express your joy wait and you open up and you start sharing your joy and you're showing your light and. After you get over the fact that people are trying to yell at you telling you to put it away put it away put it Away. Don't be like that there are other people that are gonna be looking at your light your joy and they're gonna be like Wow I feel the same way. That's my truth I see myself and they'll go toward you. So. All you really have to do is to be yourself leave your truth and you're going to make lasting friendships.

37:14.72
karagoodwin
Yeah, and to take that one step further. It's that modeling of that expression. So It's like oh look look at what they're doing I have that within me too. But I haven't had the courage to. To open that and to to shine that so you know it's giving a permission slip. It's like that bravery of of owning who we are and being authentic then helps others to be like oh okay, well they're getting away with it.

37:33.59
Coach Lee
Guess.

37:49.85
karagoodwin
Yeah I can do that too. You know in my own way of of what that is is for me, you know now.

37:56.40
Coach Lee
Absolutely I love that because that's the mentality that was like wow there they seem to be okay, ah it's like Kate Katelin for Caitlyn Jenner is a great example for me like that's a great example of like oh wow.

38:09.77
karagoodwin
Um, yeah, exactly well.

38:11.71
Coach Lee
They I mean of course they had resources and everything but they look okay look like I can't believe that they went through this this whole process of the world believing that they were 1 way even being on the weedies box and the ultimate olympic champion to transitioning to.

38:14.23
karagoodwin
Um, yeah I.

38:29.70
Coach Lee
Something completely unrecognizable to those people who saw him on the weedy box and they're okay so maybe I can do that too.

38:34.21
karagoodwin
Um, bread. Yes, yeah, That's so Beautiful. Well Coach Lee This has been and a beautiful, beautiful conversation I can't thank you enough. Tell us how people can find out more about you and and working with you and your resources.

38:55.57
Coach Lee
Absolutely, you can find me at Patterns of possibility.com and I'm on patterns of possibility on all social media and right now I have this fifty Journal Prompts ah download a pdf download that you can find at my website. So The fifty Journal Prompts is essentially if you want to get to know someone you have to give them somebody to know about you and many of us don't know what to talk about So These Journal prompts are to help us get to know ourselves a little more so that we can connect it to others. It's all about you expressing yourself so you have to know yourself before you can express yourself. So in the Journal prompts. You'll also see that there's something that's going to help you connect with people a little more so not only will you talk about yourself, but it's how you're going to bring that conversation to the table so you can find that at Patterns of possibility.com.

39:39.17
karagoodwin
And.

39:44.46
Coach Lee
And again on all social media at parents of possibility.

39:48.54
karagoodwin
Oh beautiful. Well I have just loved this so much. Thank you, Thank you for being here and thank you just for everything that you're doing the the path that you have walked I know has been a difficult One. Um. But the the work that you've done on yourself and that that you're then expanding that out to be able to affect so many people is really a real gift. So Thank you so much.

40:13.90
Coach Lee
Thank you so much Kara I appreciate that you modeled the behavior to asking the kind of questions that might be scary. So thank you again for having me.

40:22.51
karagoodwin
Thank you.

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