101. Alien Encounters - Mary Rodwell
** More mysterious audio interference in an episode discussing aliens!**
It was a genuine joy and honor to talk to Mary Rodwell, author of Awakening and The New Human. She is the founder of Australian Close Encounter Resource Network (ACERN), and she has counseled, researched, and written about countless cases of extraterrestrial encounters. It was fascinating to discuss the phenomenon of galactic encounters with Mary, but the conversation goes well beyond that. Mary is also a metaphysical teacher, and she brings much insight about each of us being a multidimensional being and how this ties into our spiritual mission, journey, and lessons. And, at the very end, there is very interesting audio interference which is truly reminiscent of what was experienced in episode 95 (and, incidentally, has never been experienced apart from these two episodes, both of which are the only episodes in which I have explored aliens).
In this episode, we explore:
- Is there a difference between the various descriptors of indigo children, crystal children, star children, etc, and how do our 3D labels of aspergers, ADHD, autism relate to those children?
- Many who have encounters just know it as a reality that doesn’t need to be proven. It is challenging being in this 3D mindset where “proof” is required for gaining acceptance.
- How soul growth and missions play in with the challenges faced regarding acceptance of contact experiences.
- The truth embargo which includes but goes far beyond UFOs. So much of the information we are given is inaccurate - about our DNA, hidden archeology, anthropology, biology.
- The necessity of humanity realizing we are spirit inhabiting a human container, not just a body having a finite experience.
- Encoded works - art, music, written script, spoken light language.
- How ET encounters support awakening and humanity’s evolution.
- What does the huge shift in lifestyle we’ve experienced through COVID mean for humanity and our planet’s awakening?
Mary's website: www.alienlady.com
[00:00:26.090] - Kara
Hello and welcome to the meditation conversation. I'm your host, Kara Goodwin, and for the minute, it's just me. I'll welcome, Mary Rodwell, and we'll start the proper episode soon. But I am recording this little intro even after I've released this episode, because there is more interference that you'll hear in this episode. And I've had several people contact me asking me if I know that there is more interference, like what we experienced with the aliens episode. What episode number was that? Okay, I just looked it up. It's episode 95. There's an episode with Michael Massey called Aliens, and it's the only time other than this one where I've explored aliens. They did come up, I think, in David Lyons episode, but we didn't really go deeply into it. This episode and episode 95 are the only ones where I have specifically had the topic of aliens. And there has been this unusual audio interference in each of those episodes. So this one, it happens at the very, very end. I did mention it in the show notes, but I also listen to podcasts and I don't read the show notes usually, too, so I understand that it got overlooked. I mean, the interference is fascinating, but it doesn't take anything away from Mary's content. She is amazing. She's doing really amazing work, and it was a real blessing to have her. But what happens with this interference is that I went back and I edited the podcast, and then I got all the way to the end and I realized that I hadn't closed it out. I often do that when I interview somebody rather than closing it out while I'm with them. I'll go back later and do it, but I'd forgotten that I hadn't done that yet. So I edit the whole thing and I don't really hear a lot. I mean, there are some little glitchy things in there, but we're recording by Zoom and we're on opposite sides of the world, so nothing dramatic happens during it. And then I go back and I edit it and I record the closing a couple of weeks later, maybe I can't remember exactly how long I'm really focused on what I want to say and trying not to make it too long and whatnot. And so I say my thing, and then I go back and I listen to it right away and thinking, okay, I just need to close this out and move on to the next thing.
[00:03:36.810] - Kara
And then I hear the interference. And it's so similar to what happened in the last episode. I just burst out laughing. I was home by myself, and I just burst out laughing because I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe it happened again. And so the facts are, if I want to appeal to your left hemisphere, this is the same equipment that I have been using for this is the first podcast I have other podcasts also that have recorded that haven't been released yet. I've recorded many guided meditations that aren't included in that number. And the only two times that this has happened, it has been on the topic of alien. So for me, that resonates. And that seems more than a coincidence. That seems like it is intentional and that seems like contact to me. Now, I am not like the people that we discussed in this podcast that Mary has research where they have conscious recall of Galactic encounters. I can't include myself in that. You have access to what I have access to. So you get to make up your own mind and decide for yourself what you think is going on.
[00:05:06.030] - Kara
But anyway, without further Ado, let's get on with Mary. Hi, and welcome to the meditation conversation. I'm your host, Kara Goodwin. And I'm so excited today to welcome Mary Rodwell. She's joining us from Queensland, Australia. Correct. Queensland.
[00:05:29.650] - Mary
It is indeed in Queensland.
[00:05:32.050] - Kara
Okay, great. And she is the founder of Australian Close Encounter Resource Network. She's a former nurse, midwife, and health educator. And since 1994, Mary's worked in private practice as a professional counselor, hypnotherapist, metaphysical teacher, researcher, author, Reiki master, and international speaker. And I have been devouring Mary's 2016 book, The New Awakening to our Cosmic Heritage. So I can't wait to discuss this book and the wealth of information that I have found in it. But first, welcome, Mary. So great to have you.
[00:06:22.190] - Mary
It's an absolute pleasure. And thank you for inviting me.
[00:06:25.030] - Kara
Yeah, wonderful. And I wondered if we could just start with your background. I love your website. It's Alienlady.com, which is perfect. Just the best domain name that could possibly exist. But how did you become such an authority in the et space? You went from a healthcare practitioner to a researcher and counselor on alien encounters. So can you take us through that a little bit?
[00:07:01.550] - Mary
Certainly. And it may help people to realize that I came from a very conventional background and obviously as a nurse and a midwife. And quite honestly, if you told me 40 odd years ago when I was nursing that one day I'd be traveling the world talking about UFOs and aliens, I'd have probably sent you to the nearest Pica because nothing was further from my consciousness. Not that I didn't believe that that was possible, but it wasn't something that had come into my framework at that time.
[00:07:40.760] - Mary
So it's been a kind of process where I went from being a health educator. And I started to, if you like, explore counseling simply because it was offered to me in a medical practice. And I got trained in counseling. And it grabbed me because what I loved about counseling was that this was part of the reason a lot of people get sick is because of their emotional, psychological traumas and issues. And if I can be a preventative rather than a cure, then that was going to that really appealed to me. But as I explored and when I came to Australia, I did grief and bereavement and Hospice, working with those that only had a short time to live. It took me into another realm of what does happen after death? Do we survive? Really? The spiritual journey was what that took me into. And so I started to explore everything from re incarnation to the survival after death, near death experiences, all those kinds of phenomena. And in fact, what intrigued me about that was that when I learned hypnosis, that was what I found myself being drawn into as things like past lives, not just looking at this life, but other lifetimes, and how that reality for people where they would be releasing traumas from those imprints of other lifetimes was fascinating.
[00:09:19.920] - Mary
And really, I suppose I felt like my human journey was preparing me for the next step. And literally, as I'm exploring all of this, I find someone walking through the door saying they heard I was open minded, they were having experiences with aliens on board, craft left with marks on the body. The whole family was having experiences, and that gave it a lot more validity, if you like, this wasn't just one person, this was the whole family involved. And he said relatives wouldn't come to the house because they thought it was demons, but he was waking up with marks on his body, shade areas, et cetera. So it's very tangible. And this really was going down the rabbit hole for me because fortunately, I'm one of these people. If a subject is weird and wonderful, I've usually got a book on it. It's always been part of my desire to know truth, to understand why we're here, what's it all about, what's the big picture that anyone on their spiritual journey wants. And that really started me on this big picture, realizing not just were the spirits and angelic realms and all the religious figures.
[00:10:42.420] - Mary
Bended Mars does all this. There were, in fact, nonhuman intelligence is both physical and non physical in terms of interdimensional extra dimensional transdimensional. And I believe very probably visitors from our future. So that's where it's taken me over the last 25 years.
[00:11:02.570] - Kara
Wow. I love that. And I'm so with you, my bookshelves are just like children's memories of past lives and reincarnation and anything. I mean, I'm so drawn to the same topics that you describe as well. Did you find that from a personal experience, have you also had experience, or is it through your clients that you've had the encounter? Did anything open up for you individually through all this work?
[00:11:43.070] - Mary
Well, I have to come clean a little bit. And in the sense of during the journeying into having my own past life regressions, where I discovered I had a number of lifetimes, which at the time was even like I was questioning the reality of it, even though it was coming almost like a fast movie and coming out with things that I knew I didn't know. But when I was being regressed were coming out with these different things, terms I wouldn't ever use. That intrigued me and got me into doing the past life regressions myself in terms of helping other people. But I also was invited to join a group and there were professionals, two were clinical psychologists and one of them was a nursing sister. There was a homeopath and there was also a trance medium. And basically we explored all the ways we connect to the noncipical realm. It was everything from remote healing, energy work we did it all connecting to our team. I call it my non physical team. And at the time I know that I was really quite skeptical because I've got a very healthy left brain that says, hold on, Mary, you need to have tangibility here.
[00:13:09.930] - Mary
You need to have validity with your experiences. And I had certain experiences that prove to me without any shadow of a doubt that this was real and it happened very early on and it still was a catalyst for the experience. After that, I couldn't doubt it. And so that led me Cara into understanding how it works. Quite a bit of my work nowadays is helping people at that point where they're feeling they're maybe getting communication, feeling they're getting downloads of information, perhaps having some form of sense. They're communicating with different realms, whether it's the angelic realm or one of the more religious sides, whether that be the price consciousness or whatever, or they are aware that it may be a blue being or a light being or whatever it is, but not quite bringing it into the tangibility of making it lot of my work is showing people how to do that so that they can actually validate and work with it in a more conscious way whilst I'm just waiting for the insights or just waiting for it to happen. Because I believe that's the next step, the next step for us being part of the Galactic community is about us consciously working with those beings and knowing who they are.
[00:14:43.440] - Mary
Because I say to people, when they say they're getting downloads or they're getting information, I'll say, well, who are you working with? And I say, I don't really know, but it's always helpful, it always supports me. And what have you? And I say, well, you're talking to your best friend behind a wooden door. Don't you think it's time you found out who they were? And so then you have that extra tangibility that you can actually access that whenever you want, rather waiting for the next insight or synchronicity or download or whatever it is. You can consciously say, Hi guys, this is what I need to have some understanding on or whatever, because we are multi dimensional. We are meant to be operating in that realm as well as the physical realm.
[00:15:27.170] - Kara
Wow, that's beautiful. And that's illustrated so beautifully. In your book, that's one of the things that because you focus really, the majority of the book is really focused on encounters of the youth, those I'd say, who were post 2000s, birth year 2004, not all of them were, but some of them talk about with such maturity, such spiritual maturity. And there are things in there like, I know that I'm actually working with myself. I'm working with another dimensional aspect of my own self, but it's expressing as from Arcturus or the Pleiades or whatever. And that's just fascinating. I don't know. You kind of made me think of that when you're talking about the this resource, really? Yeah. But many of the children in particular, they identify as there are different terms that they identify with such a starchildren, IndiGo's, Crystal children. And those terms were relatively new to me. So I wondered if we could just kind of if there's any clarity that needs to happen, if there's any differentiation or if they are all interchangeable.
[00:17:02.630] - Mary
These terms, Cara, it's a very good question. In metaphysical circles, we all work ready. Many will recognize the term Indigo Crystal children, children of light. All these different terms that are used to identify the nature of these new generations of humans that are coming into the planet have been over a number of years. Often it's talking about their frequency and it's talking about their role. So the IndiGo's are often the warriors, and they're coming in to challenge the system. For example, you get others that are coming in as healers, as empaths, for example. So they have a different frequency and what have you. So in that sense, in metaphysical terms, you have these different identifying names to who and what they have come in with their mission. The other issue, though, that I saw being very clear was in conventional terms, you have these children being identified as different, but not in a positive way. They're identified as different as a dysfunction. And we have these terms ADHD Asperger's some forms of autism dyslexia. And the reason that I focused on that is because when I looked at the intergenerational link of those that have contact, and this is going back to the grandparents, and beyond that, it's going through the family lines where the mother or father or both comes, then down to the next generation.
[00:18:52.820] - Mary
And each generation appears to be that little bit more conscious or more aware of who and what they've come in with. And what I was noticing was a lot of the new generations of children, the parents would say, oh, but he's got autism, he's got Asperger's or he's got this and this. And I kept wondering, as you do, so why would these intelligences create a dysfunctional human unless it's not a dysfunction? Maybe it is something we haven't identified that makes them different. And what I discovered was that many of these children were highly multidimensionally aware, many remembering their past lives, knowing why they've come into the planet at this time knowing about their mission. To give you an example, a ten year old explaining that he came from a planet that he remembers him being a blue being. He explained that he was center seed connecting to the planet core here to work with pollution on this planet right now. So he knew even at that age why he'd incarnated what his mission was. This is what I mean about the reason I focused on the children was because so many of them are coming in.
[00:20:12.560] - Mary
Many of them are seen as dysfunctional because they're labeled ADHD or whatever. But what's really going on is they don't function so well in a very programmed 3D reality. So they are harder to program. And I believe that liberate because the harder they are to program, the more they will stay in a multidimensional state to access more of who and what they are. So I believe it's a deliberate way of if you like a different wiring so that they're not programmed out. As one nine year old in Sweden told me, when you go to school, they program you out of your life is the way that she explained it. And this is really what a lot of the children in what we call the conventional educational system will see things that just don't fit for them. And why is that? It's because many of them are being educated off world. And this is, you know, you've got children of three and four talking about going to with their special friends to these special places where they go to school and they learn. I always remember this lovely eight year old telling me how she was so excited because a few days earlier she got a mom to contact me who was in the US and said a few days ago that there being her special friends had taken her to a planet where she was taught to levitate, how to use her third eye and was even shown interspecies manipulation because they seed other planets with different life forms and what have you.
[00:21:55.620] - Mary
And this is all coming quite spontaneously after a couple of days of having this experience. So you've got these children really quite conscious of their interactions. This isn't in hypnosis. This is conscious recall. And fortunately, many of them are incarnating into a family where one or both parents might be aware who actually listen to what their children are saying. And the reason I wanted to focus so much on the children was because a lot of them are having a really hard time because they're different. They're hugely empathic, they get bullied, often they'll shut down. So the more the parents understand what's going on with the children and listen to them, the more chance these beautiful souls that have come to help the planet and us in our evolution and our shift and change at the moment, they need to be supported so they can do what they've come here to do. So for me, it was vital that the parents and I get it. I have psychologists contact me, different educators as well as parents who are seeing this, who are aware enough to know that these children are different. So that was why a lot of focus was on the children.
[00:23:16.610] - Kara
Yeah. And that's evident in your book as well. And one of the quotes that I pulled from the New Human is from Antonio from New Zealand, who says that, well, actually, I think you wrote this in his section. But their awareness can be very challenging to them because contact with other forms of intelligences is a knowing with them and doesn't need to be proven. The challenge is to gain acceptance of this knowing when living in a 3D mindset that requires more tangible proof. Thank goodness that they do. I love that you said that. A lot of them have that you're finding that they are born into families that are offering them this kind of support, or at least the ones who are able to get to you are. But that's fascinating. They know it to be true. And it's like a challenge to then translate that and to get it into this 3D mindset.
[00:24:25.950] - Mary
I think that's the biggest issue, Cara, that has been a concern for I've come across many grandparents that will see this in their grandchildren, but the parents are completely unaware. And they will say, how can I support my grandchildren? I can see they're one of the new ones. And yet the parents have no idea about and I said, well, your role as a grandparent, they've chosen you to be a link to this. But this is the worrying thing for me, is hearing the stories of many of these starchildren that have this knowing of who and what they are. And they're in an environment where their parents may have a very formal or strict religious upbringing, where they have a different belief to the child. And I'll give you an example, and I mentioned it in the New Human of a young Indian man who told me that he knew always knew he was a star seed. He had absolutely no doubts of his origins and that he was connected to various intelligences. And he said, the trouble is, with my culture, Mary, is we have all these so called gods, he said, and over 100 of these gods, he said.
[00:25:50.070] - Mary
And he said, and my countryman, he said, worship them. And he says, but I know they're all just extraterrestrial. They're not gods. They're just extraterrestrials. He said, so what do I do? This is what my parents believe. These are what my relatives and people around me, and I know that they shouldn't be worshiping them. He found it really hard to be in a society. And this is not the only time I've got others with very strict, different religious beliefs with their parents having this absolute knowing that their star seeds and some of them have said to me. And there was one young man in his 20s, his parents were very strict in a Christian belief system. And he said, I know I'm a star seed all the rest of it. And he says, but I can't tell my parents they would be devastated. They wouldn't handle it because they're so entrenched in their religious beliefs. And he said I've often contemplated suicide because he didn't know how to break his parents. He thought it would just break them if they heard something that was completely different for their own belief system. So you've got this is the concern that I have with not just the children but the young stars, Antonio, when I first connected with him, he was 17, but had parents that were very open to all of this.
[00:27:25.590] - Mary
But there are many that are facing this awful paradigm block between their own awareness and maybe their parents or their relatives or even friends. And it can be really toxic for them to the point where some of them either go onto drugs or alcohol to shut down the paint of this issue for them because it's so hard for them to live with what they know against what is accepted as reality on this panel.
[00:27:59.880] - Kara
Wow. Yeah. What a tragedy. When you talked about the ones who talk about the programming and that maybe they're harder to program and that there have been those who've had contact who talked about how the school systems program the children, is there a risk that those who do know now that it can be programmed out of them, that they'll forget, or is it very strong? Does that make sense?
[00:28:40.750] - Mary
Yes, it does, Carl. What I would say is that as a soul, when we come in through my regressions, they talk about choosing their parents, choosing their siblings, choosing their life adventure, if you like, or their life journey, and they're choosing it for the sold growth. So they've got a personal mandate and they've got a bigger mandate maybe as part of their mission for this planet. So some of the time the children come in deliberately to challenge their parents belief system or their family's belief system. And that's part of the deal is owning your truth in an environment where nobody wants to hear it or it's challenged by it or is fearful of it. But that's part of what they've chosen to come in with as part of the mandate, if you like or the experience and what have you. So what needs to happen? What I do see happening is when there is those blocks in the family is that they source other help. And there are environments. One of them is a lady in America that runs an online support for the children. Well, all from about eight, I think, 16 or whatever, where they meet online and they share their experiences, but they are with parents that are generally fairly open, but everyone is different.
[00:30:19.160] - Mary
You might get a child where the grandparents are the ones that are open to it or whatever. When I did a family support when I was in the US, there were a number of families who had come to meet to share with the children's experiences. I found the ones that needed the most support with the parents. It might be one parent that was open, but the other one not open. And there would be issues from that experience or both parents open, but worried about the schooling. What was the best way to help their child? Because of the conventional schooling shutting children down, many were looking to home school and this kind of thing. So a lot of my role, I believe, was to highlight it, to get the information out there, but also to connect families with children so they could support each other. And I mean, here in Queensland, I've got a number of contacts with parents and their children so that the children can connect with one another so that the child doesn't feel completely isolated. But also the parents have someone else who understands what's going on as well. So this is, I think, absolutely vital is connecting community.
[00:31:44.650] - Mary
That's right. Creating community of the children having that support, but also the parents, because they're going against everything. The whole model of reality that we call 3D is very powerful and the programming is very powerful for me. When I opened up some more of my multi dimensional self, I was constantly checking that Barry hadn't lost the plot, you know what I mean? Because it's so strong, what's not real. And the more you open up, the more that can be an issue for you, because you're becoming so different in the way you do things to everyone else and everybody else is looking at you and they're waiting to see the tin hat in the area coming out because you're moving into and you question, you start to question everything because you realize that much of what you've been taught on this planet is actually not true, that it's inaccurate in many ways. And that was where it took me. And so many who wake up, they start looking at the information and the knowledge that's put out there and realizing so much of it has been altered and changed to keep us from knowing the truth.
[00:33:10.300] - Mary
And there is a huge truth embargo not just with UFOs and extraterrestrials and whatever, but in terms of hidden archeology, anthropology, biology, the DNA we're not told about truth about our DNA and the fact we're hybrids right through. So everywhere you look, you have to look again. And that includes many of the religions that have some truth in them but also have other things that are more to the control. The control. Exactly.
[00:33:44.310] - Kara
Yeah. I am so with you. I mean, the amount of times that one, I just know that I'm not going to get anywhere with somebody. So something comes up and it's like I know that I don't agree, but I don't even know where to start with how to engage with, to explain myself why that mainstream thing that everybody is accepting, why I can't get on board with it, or I find myself starting with, I know this sounds crazy. I know I sound like a conspiracy theorist or whatever it is. I know how this sounds. But this really seems right. And it's hard to have those conversations. And those aren't even the truly more bizarre ones. Like, oh, I'm being schooled off planet at night. I'm getting taken in a Starship. I mean, those are difficult things to convey to people if they're shut down for sure.
[00:35:05.410] - Mary
I think we're getting a real taste of that now in the polarities of beliefs. If you look at what's happening to the planet at the moment, one of my good friends and colleagues is molecular biologist Dr. Philina Olson, and she's an experiencer who also has the label ADHD and all the rest of it. And she said to me, Mary, I was told that we're sort of moving into two frequencies, low frequency people and high frequency people. And she said, and the low frequency people are going to stay in their 3D reality and the high frequency will move and shift into this higher awareness. And if you look at the polarities right now where you've got the belief in everything that's being put out on mainstream right now about this so called pandemic, I'll say so called because I've got big reservations about that. And the ones that are seeing another agenda, another program behind all of that. And it's really hard. And I've got so many people saying to me, look, I'm trying to highlight, Mary, to my family and friends, there's more going on here than you're seeing and whatever. And they don't want to know or they don't want to hear it, or they start to say, oh, you're just a conspiracy theory.
[00:36:27.310] - Mary
Actually, you're a critical thinker if you're questioning the mandate, because you need to question the mandate because we're being fed what those who wish to retain control of this planet want you to know. And that doesn't make it the truth. It just makes them very good at propaganda. So we're having this separation now all over what's happening on the planet. But it's deeper than that. And the thing is, as you say, you can't suddenly hit people with that is they've got no background because this is a process of acceptance of a greater and greater and greater reality as you start to work your way through this whole phenomena of being multidimensional. But the first thing is to get people to accept in psychology. And we've got a psychology model that doesn't honor the fact that we're multidimensional. It just says that you can only trust your senses. Anything outside of that is an aberration. So while we've still got a psychology that isn't honoring the essence of the soul or spirit, our consciousness that is separate and can be separate from our physical body, we can't go any further until that changes. And people realize that we are spirit inhabiting this human container rather than there's just a human container.
[00:37:55.130] - Mary
That when we die, that's the end of us as a being. So that's the big step. We have to change the way psychology now is promoted as the be all and end all of doing what we are. Unfortunately, there are many groups now that exploring near death experiences, out of body experiences, as for travel or shamanic experiences, for example, that open them up to the other realms or whatever. So there is this movement of acceptance, even if it isn't in mainstream psychology or psychiatry that still thinks if you're hearing voices, you're crazy. Until we can change that, people are going to be afraid of owning their experience. And you know that. I have met not just hundreds but thousands of people that have these experiences. They're hearing these different intelligences. Some of them are seeing them. Some of them are seeing orbs of light and communicating with them. But you ask them in an everyday setting, do you have any unusual experiences? Oh, no. There is no way in this world they're going to own it to you until you show that you're prepared or you're open enough to their experiences. And this is I get phone calls all the time, Mary, you're going to think I'm crazy.
[00:39:18.010] - Mary
I laugh because you can go into parallel universes, different timelines with me, the secret space program, all of it is fine, absolutely fine with me. There's nothing that I won't discuss with you because I've reached a point where I say we don't know what we don't know about our multiverse. We're just exploring the possibilities. I'll give you an example of what a nine year old recently came up and told his parents and she said he gave many details. He was a time traveler from the future. His real form is not the body he inhabits now. He is genderless in that form. Again, terms and concepts. She had no idea he knew. He says his alien form is really us from the future and they are us and we are them. And he told this to her at seven years. He went on to describe how he has no nails and four fingers. Now, what do you do with that? With a seven year old?
[00:40:23.810] - Kara
Wow. I mean, that's amazing to even be able to have the concept that you're from the future. So I don't know. That's remarkable.
[00:40:38.610] - Mary
Wow. This is what I'm sorry, the kinds of information that are coming to me from parents with these children. And they're dumbfounded by some of the information that he was talking about being visited from five. The beings had black eyes and Gray skin, and they put him to sleep and took him. But they were part of a science team.
[00:41:02.110] - Kara
[00:41:03.190] - Mary
And told him he's very special. This is all at five years old is explaining this.
[00:41:08.900] - Kara
Oh, my gosh.
[00:41:16.490] - Mary
And the parents know when a child is just using their imagination or this is coming from a truth from them because parents know when their father is confabulating or whatever. Children of similar age and older saying, you know, I'm not from here.
[00:41:37.020] - Kara
[00:41:37.400] - Mary
But my parents are in space, for example, at five. And that's not just one child, but a number of children have come out with the same concept. You have to look at the patterns of those experiences and see time and time again. They're talking about their special friends in blue and takes them to a special store at night, or I call it face school, where they learn different things and they learn about energy and they learn how to use their consciousness, et cetera, et cetera. And they're also explaining, as one eight year old said to me, when he gets taken, he is there amongst other human children, but also other children that are not human. And I said to him, what does a non human children look like? How do you know they're different? And he said, it's their eyes mostly. He said that we use our minds to create things and to learn things and to move things. And he said, very complex information. We get taught. And I said to him naively, so what kind of complex information do you get taught? And he just looked me straight in the eye and he said, but it's too complex for you.
[00:42:49.550] - Mary
That well and truly put me back in my place. That wasn't quite enough.
[00:42:58.050] - Kara
That's awesome. I love it. Well, and you talk about how the parents know the difference between just the wild imagination and when something's really seeming real. And that was another thing that you have these cases in the new human where there are gifts or channelings where it actually creates these children. And I think in one case it was an adult, but where they're producing encoded works. So you have examples of a musician who effortlessly created encoded music and the mom could tell which pieces that the child had created himself and which were channeled. Like, she could tell. And then it was just like he just did it all at once. One take kind of like, get the recording, I'm ready. And it was boom, done. And she's like, and that is not his level without some sort of mysterious interference there. And the same with somebody producing encoded artwork. And then different children talking about different technologies, a lot of pyramid technology.
[00:44:15.050] - Kara
Even these humans who are the actual creators, let's say they understand that it's encoded, but they can't even encode what they've created. Sorry, they can't even decode necessarily what they've created. And then you've got like crossings where you reference other people who've had contact who are experiencing the channeled art or music or whatever. And they recognize also, like you've got these confirmations of other people who had the experience, but it blows my mind. I don't know if you want to share anything about some of this encoded work or even if you notice in the wild outside of these, when you're kind of just out and about like that looks like it could be or sounds like it could be encoded.
[00:45:15.450] - Mary
All right. So something that I focused on very early on, often before many other researchers, simply because a young lady came to me in her early 20s with this extraordinary geometric artwork that she downloaded from her Et connections, Tracy Taylor. And it was complex. It was beautiful. It had scripts, strange writing on it. It was multi dimensional. As you looked at it, it took you into a special kind of place that started me off when people said to me, well, what's the evidence and the reality of extra pressure contact. And since then, I've had sent to me thousands of examples of strange writing scripts. Some looks like shorthand, some looks almost Chinese, some look like ancient uniform. But they said they spontaneously found themselves wanting to manifest, to draw or whatever. But it wasn't just artwork. It was also scripts. But it was also these languages that would spontaneously manifest in some people. They would go into learning about healing or doing maybe reague or another model of healing. And then as they're tuning in, they suddenly find themselves coming out with these unusual languages or we thought star languages or light language or universal language or whatever.
[00:46:54.650] - Mary
So we had all these things manifesting after extraterrestrial contact. And I've said many times, if this wasn't real, then none of this would manifest because you wouldn't have these expressions of et contact happening unless there was something very real going on. And the fact that I've seen so many scripts look very similar, and some people can translate them and some people can't because some of them are impressed files of information, if you like. As one young lady told me, she said one symbol can contain the information, but still a room full of encyclopedias. So it isn't a translatable one. It's a download of a program, whereas others can be translated. And one of the most powerful results of that was when I had a mother write to me when I was reading my book Awakening, which is my first book, which is a resource book for people waking up to their experiences. And in it, I've got Tracy Taylor's story, but also one of her scripts, this strange looks like shorthand. And the mother said I was reading the book. And my daughter, who's seven, saw the script in the book and said, oh, I can read that.
[00:48:18.240] - Mary
And the mother said, you can read it. She said, oh, yes, and proceeded to tell her what it said. The mother contacted me and said, my daughter says that she can read this script. I said, well, I'd love to talk to your daughter. And we did a Skype and it's very confident seven year old. I said to her, your mom says that you can read the script in my book. She said, oh, yes. She says, do you want it in the language or do you want it in English?
[00:48:45.420] - Kara
[00:48:46.080] - Mary
And I said, well, I'd like both if possible. Oh, yes. She goes. So she proceeds to speak in the language and then translates it into English. And then I said to her, do you know where it comes from? Do you know the source of this information? She said, oh, yes, that's the grave. Now, a few weeks forward from that, I met the mother and the child in a group with other experiences. And I had a whole book of script that I took because people can sometimes recognize different scripts and have an awareness and a knowing with them. And I said to this young seven year old, I said, have a look through, is there anything you can translate here? And she went through. She did some of these I I can't don't recognize. She said, I can't translate. But she picked another one out and she was reading it almost horizontally. And she read it again in the same way with the language, then translated it. And I said to her, and where does this one come from? And she said, oh, the graves and the Mantis. Now you tell me if that isn't compelling, because she was there amongst a whole load of adults, she had absolutely no problem in working out which scripts she could read and which ones she couldn't.
[00:50:12.230] - Mary
And it was spontaneous. This is just one example of what's going on. And many people get triggered when they see the scripts or whether they hear the languages or they see the artwork, because all of it is a frequency which people, when they're ready to wake up, are triggered by. And when I spoke to this young man who was an artist in the book as well, and I said to him with his artwork, he said, Mary, my artwork is there to trigger consciousness. He said, when people look at it, it changes their perception. And he admitted that he has the knowing that he came from another dimension and that he's come in as an artist to do this artwork as a way of triggering consciousness. So when you have this kind of information coming from the symbols you mentioned the young man with the piano, that blew me away, too, because he would just suddenly say to his mother, I need you to get the video. I am going to play this now and spontaneously play for five or ten minutes without stopping a particular piece that was coming through him onto the piano. And then he would have the names Brit and one of them, I think, I recall is called DNA activation.
[00:51:38.050] - Mary
And I sent his information and his music to another artist in America who is Japanese, actually. And she at six years old, she had et contact and a lot of her music was exactly inspired in exactly the same way. And she listened to his music and said it's genius. So here am I having someone who is a musician, celebrated musician that's had these other worldly experiences herself recognizing in this young eleven year old exactly the same process. And as you'll notice, Tara, I'm very careful to do as much validation and to show how this isn't just a one off that I've looked at getting those that have some expertise to qualify as much as possible some of this data. So people just don't think it's just one person or whatever. No, let me tell you that there's this person or this person or there's a teacher or whatever that's seen us before or whatever, because it's important that we do our best to give it tangibility and validation. So it isn't to, as I call it, airy fairy. It's actually got past in a lot of tangibility on this planet and validity through other people's experiences.
[00:53:04.630] - Mary
So the expression are part of the reality of showing us that this is real, right?
[00:53:12.860] - Kara
Yeah. And that is absolutely correct. The other piece, you have examples like that where you were able to get in touch with somebody who commented directly on it. You also cite throughout the book different professionals who've come forward. So, for example, I want to say that it was like there are times where there are people who've had contact and experience with Mars schools in Mars, but like in the planet underground or within the planet. And then there are like security. What's the word I'm looking for scientists who have experience with it, who have come out and written about it that you reference here's, somebody who was in the government for X amount of years and wrote about this.
[00:54:17.830] - Mary
What I say is that it's been very important to bring this into what is known on this planet and those that are coming out, the whistleblowers, the people that have got really credible backgrounds. I mean, when I talked about the ADHD and Asperger's there's two molecular biologists, both giving that substance in terms of their understanding of the genetic changes, for example, I think it's very important and people do have a need to validate this in a way that makes sense to them, because if you're new to this, it can sound too extraordinary. The words unless you can look at the we do that on this planet if you've got a PhD in something or you've got credibility medical doctor. And of course, as you know, I've got a medical doctor story in the New Human as well, a lady who lives in Melbourne who had this activation in India and now has become a shamanic, MD. Her story is incredible. Again, you've got someone who's coming from a conventional background having this shift and this activation, if you like, as she calls it, where she started to see and experience multi dimensionality and the trauma of that for her in her environment.
[00:55:48.860] - Mary
So she was married to another doctor and that created huge personal problems for her. But having to own her truth, this is happening globally where people are having these activations and these shifts in consciousness, going from a very much a 3D experience into a multi dimensional one and letting go of everything that they knew at one point or accepted as their reality and how hard that can be, where you're going from a conventional life into one where all of a sudden none of that matters anymore. And being drawn to a very holistic lifestyle, wanting to live holistically. I'm not interested in materialism changing their diet. And this can almost be in an overnight thing for many people. And it may happen after a shamanic experience, it may have happened after a death experience, or it may happen because they've seen a UFO or an unidentified aerial object is one of the favorites. Now, what happens it's that changes their paradigm forever. And what people don't realize is when they see a craft, often there is a download or there's an activation going on, even though they may have only seen it for a few minutes, because I will say to them, after a sighting, did you feel different?
[00:57:13.490] - Mary
And many of them will say, but yes, I have. I found myself researching things. I found myself wanting to understand things. I found myself being aware of things I would never have even looked at before. That's because something happened and they didn't just see a UFO. They actually had an interaction that they don't before.
[00:57:34.750] - Kara
Wow, that's amazing. Such a tangible experienced like that. And even without that, last night I was with some friends. And the activity with NASA, with Mars that's happening right now. Somebody was asking me if I'm keeping up with that and what I think about it. And I was like, you know, I really haven't the activity. And I kind of said it like I knew who I was talking to and that I wasn't really around people who might appreciate it as much. But I kind of said, well, from what I understand, from those who know the activity is actually in the planet of Mars, they're actually in it. They're not on it, they're in it. They just looked at me and we all laughed. But that goes to the credibility that you're talking about, where it's so important to have, like the whistleblowers and the articles that you reference in your book, because it is hard when you don't have a frame of reference and I don't have the eloquence and the knowledge of it to be able to be convincing about it. So I just have to kind of like go, well, you know, what they actually say is let it be light and let it just be a seed for whatever it's worth.
[00:59:14.990] - Mary
One thing about Mark, this was way before I'd really got involved in the way I have an understanding of the secret space program and what the children has told me about being taken and shown things on Mars. This was a regression I did with this mother with a 13 year old daughter. And the reason the mother had asked me to do the regression was the daughter was having experience. Susan, she was getting very frightened up to that point. She'd been fine. And the mother said, look, I just want to know why she's getting frightened, because she hasn't been up to this point. And I said, well, okay, we'll find out who's been visiting. That created the fear. As it turned out, it was because they were different beings. And she hadn't yet fully understood why these beings were visiting her. But once she did, she was fine spontaneously. And this is what was interesting because I didn't ask any questions to instigate this information spontaneously. She said, oh, she says, I'm on this red planet. She goes, and there's a face there. Well, up to this point, I hadn't known about the face on Mars or anything.
[01:00:37.420] - Mary
I come across that later. So I'm going, face, red planet. And she said, oh, and she said, there's a flag there, and it's the American flag. Now, this is before I know about the face on Mars, about the secret space program or any of that. And certainly this 13 year old knew nothing right about this was coming out spontaneously. We've done the bit that we in the regression that she wanted to find out about, and then this just came out. And why give that credibility is because of that, I haven't asked any questions about Mars. I didn't even know then about space on Mars and what on Earth was an American flag doing?
[01:01:24.590] - Mary
So when you put that all together, it's intriguing until you start to get other information that gives it a lot more credibility. And the bottom line is there have been a number of children, young children, seven or eight, that have said when they're taken and shown things, some of them have been shown Mars and thought about beings under the surface of Mars, for example, and what goes on there. So not just one. This is the point. And this is conscious memory from these children. This isn't regressions isn't hypnosis. This is conscious recall of being shown things on not just Mars, but other planets as well, and being shown how to work with energy, all these kinds of otherworldly things. And going into detail, I mean, it's like they'll explain something to me, and if I ask for detail, they'll give me detail. So it's not like it's just a fuzzy overview, right. This can be extremely complex. As I asked them or tell me more about what else you saw or whatever. And what was this like? And one of the young men that talked about coming from another planet where he was blue, he drew the picture of what he looked like and all down one leg with the symbol.
[01:02:43.710] - Mary
And I said to him, so can you tell me what symbols stand for? And he did that as well. He actually told me what each symbol meant on a damage. Now, what child of that age would be able to do something like that and actually go to that kind of detail? And that's my point for those skeptical and saying, are you sure it's not their imagination or what have you? This isn't something you see on a car too. This isn't something, but it's normal for a child of that age to see in some Sci-Fi or whatever. It's completely different. And so are the images. And that's my point. So again, for the skeptics out there, I do look at what possibly could be an explanation. Naturally I would do so. But I also know that when you've got a number of children saying the same thing from different parts of the world that haven't spoken to each other or whatever, then you have to give it more credibility. One of the most interesting, when I was working with these families, when I was in the US, a little seven year old, he didn't share in the group because I think he felt a bit overwhelmed with the older children and whatever.
[01:03:58.290] - Mary
So we had a private chat and he was telling me how he was being visited by the Sasquatch Bigfoot and how this teenage Bigfoot was telling him things. And then he went on to say to me, I could speak dolphin. And I said, oh, can you? He said, you want to hear it? And I said that would be great. So he then picks up all the sounds of the dolphin, which I thought was amazing. And he said, no, Mary, I can tell when someone is lying or telling or speaking the truth. So I said, well, how does that work then? How do you know? And he said, well, he said, if they're lying, I go all cold. And if they're speaking the truth, then I go all warm. So that was how he judged the truth or something. That was the truth.
[01:04:47.550] - Kara
Oh, wow, that's beautiful. Speaking dolphin. That'd be awesome. I wanted to do that. So we touched a little bit on this previously, but one of the things that I love so much about the new human in your work is shining the light on the awakening from this other lens. So in a lot of spiritual communities, there is a lot of talk about this great awakening that's being experienced, it's being spoken about that humanity is undergoing a great awakening. The planet itself is as well. But yours was the first work that I'd come across that kind of looks at it from this Galactic perspective, and that there is this influx of assistance that's here in the form of the children who are incarnating, some of whom we've highlighted in our discussion, but also in the contact itself. So beings, a lot of the humans are remembering, like you said, conscious recall of interactions where in the nighttime while they're sleeping or whatever, they're having experiences of going on board ships or they're waking up and seeing it. And a lot of times it is for the assistance that this assistance is needed right now for this awakening.
[01:06:35.310] - Kara
And there were a few freaky stories that of encounters where that seemed to be actually there was an attempt to stand in the way where there were more kind of scary encounters and that there were maybe Et races, for example, that are wanting to prevent this awakening from happening. Have you found that there are specific races of ETS that are more prone to standing in the way of this, or is it more of even groups within species, or do you have that level of detail?
[01:07:26.970] - Mary
Carl, that's a good question. And it's a complex one because we're on this planet, often I get asked who's the goodies and who's the badies, right? Though it's as clear cut as that, Unfortunately, I can't say it is. For example, the first thing is that many people initially may see their experiences as really traumatic and scary understandably. So until they find out more about their experiences and realize that maybe when they've been taken, there's been 50% of those surveyed in our freedom ofitchell survey that I was part of, 50% have healing experiences, for example. So sometimes when you're in a fear place, you will project that it's going to be bad because you're scared. What we discovered was when you get past the fear. And this was interesting in the survey that we did with 4200 people globally was when we asked where it had taken them, 85% of them described a psychospiritual transformation. Only 15% remained traumatized and said they were evil or bad or whatever. So that's really important to state because people can go through a period where they really don't know whether they're good or bad or whatever, but they're scared.
[01:08:55.990] - Mary
And you project when you're scared the fear, which means I've got to be back from scared. So not necessarily. What I say to people is don't read about another person's perspective of them being what do you feel when you have experience with one of these beings? What's your sense of them rather than somebody else's sense? It seems to me from what the research has been, not only mine but others is overall, most of these intelligences seem to be benevolent and are part of our star family genetically, that they're here to help. They're here to assist us with what we're doing. Otherwise we wouldn't have 85% talking about a cycle of spiritual transformation. And you don't do that if you're a bad. You've got a negative agenda. You don't raise people's consciousness, do you? Right. That's telling you something. But there is a real mix, because there are agencies on this planet that definitely don't want to see this evolution of species because of their own agendas. And that's humans, I might add. But there are also other intelligences, some of them, at least not all of them, but some of them have got a possibility of being those that are trying to stop it.
[01:10:20.220] - Mary
Some of the reptilian species, the Dracos or whatever, but not all of them, some of them apparently, are very benevolent. And people have had benevolent, beautiful experiences with some of the reptilians. This makes it very complex when you get some people having wonderful experiences and saying they're trying to evolve, too, and you get others where they have a really scary experience. What people also need to know and this is going down the rabbit hole, is that in some of these facilities, there are programmed life forms such as Reptilians and Grays, for example, that are not really taste but are cloned, that are programmed by the military and are not positive. We call them the my lab, part of the my lab, military abductions and all that, as there are military abductions, and that's a whole dark side of some of humanity that do not want us to evolve. And I mean, we know about that anyway in the sense of who's running this planet. And we can say for sure there are certain agencies on this planet, but definitely don't want people to wake up. Definitely don't want us to evolve into another level of awareness because they actually have control of things the way they are.
[01:11:35.260] - Mary
So you have to look at it in context. There are some researchers that say that all of our interactions are benevolent. You'll get some that say no, there are certain ones that are bad and some are good. I don't know. I honestly don't know, other than I'm looking at the outcome. And the outcome for at least a high percentage of people has been extremely positive. And that in itself is, to me, far more of an indicator of what most of these intelligences want for us. Otherwise we wouldn't have this shift in consciousness with our interaction with them, right?
[01:12:14.780] - Kara
Yeah. And that's one of the things that I found captivating and confusing when it is like, wait, that's a reptilian in a certain story, reptilians doing this and healing and providing all that. So it's really amazing. One of my shamanic friends was talking about it. Think of the Underground Railroad during the Civil War. It's like you never are going to have, like, all good, all bad. There are going to be factions within every example in the universe that represents, well, maybe not the universe. Maybe there are all benevolent races. I hope so. But it's certainly here on Earth, and then that's definitely conceivable in terms of Grays or reptilians or so forth.
[01:13:17.470] - Mary
I'd like to just say that on our spiritual journey, our soul journey, we've chosen to incarnate in a duality. And you can't know joy unless you know sadness don't have the challenges, which is what duality gives you, what is loving, what is not loving? How do you end up with an understanding of which one your soul may choose? So we have choices here because of the duality, because that's the way we learn and we grow. So instead of seeing it as good or bad, seeing it as an opportunity to go towards whatever it is your heart resonates with, and hopefully that's one of love, compassion, healing, acceptance, all those things that we all aspire to. So the negative, as some people would say or what they would consider is bad, is it's like because in counseling, I would say to somebody, I would reframe the perspective of their experience and say, okay, you've been through all this trauma and all the challenges that gave you. Where in it can you see that it's been perhaps helpful for your understanding. So in other words, Where's the silver lining in that? Frame it into look at this now look at what you're aware of because you've experienced that.
[01:14:49.360] - Mary
And Interestingly, there's a lady that experienced the my lab being taken and abused underground by human traumatized rape. And she's facing the shadow embracing the Light by Naara Isley. I wrote the Forward for a book and she had experienced all of that. And then she found her connection to her staff family and she said, why did I experience that? Why did I have to experience all of that? And they said, because you're going to write about it and expose it. So her reason for experiencing it was so she understood and she could expose what really is going on. So there's that bit of why did I need to experience that? And it's always going to be an important, significant reason why we experience all of these challenges on Idly anyway, right?
[01:15:43.960] - Kara
Yeah. Well said, that's great. One of the other things that's so fascinating with your book and with regard to this great awakening that's happening is your book was published in 2016. Well, the new human that I've been referencing and of course, the research and the cases predate that publishing date as we're in linear time, that would stand a reason. So you have these lots of cases in the book where they're talking about this big event that's coming. So maybe it's 2013, 2014, and these people who have had contact, they have been given information that there is a big shift coming for the planet. And it's fascinating to read that in 2021 after the huge change that we are still experiencing. But that began a year ago for a lot of us here. And I don't know if you have thoughts about what we've been going through in the past year, if this is syncing up with what a lot of those say. There are cases in your book where it kind of even goes beyond what we've been through, where it talks more about even more control and more like what we've been experiencing is maybe not even quite what's to come, but our world has changed so much in the last twelve months and Gaia, the planet has changed as well with the people not traveling so much.
[01:17:46.240] - Kara
And there has been physical change with the planet too. But this definitely adds a different perspective, talking about the opportunities and how everything works eventually in our favor. But this other lens of this being, maybe this event that we've been going through has been what has been predicted by some of these contact experiences. Do you see that or do you think that it's still to come?
[01:18:25.470] - Mary
It's a very good question. When this all started to unfold last year, I spoke to a ten year old who lives in Australia who has contact with light being and he said he comes from a planet of light where they manifest instantly and explain to me that it's much harder, it takes longer to manifest on planet Earth. He said it's a bit more of a challenge. But I asked him about what was going on on the planet and he just quite casually said, oh Mary, this is the reset was his comment. And then what does that mean? And that means, of course, depending on your perspective, it's a good or it's a bad thing. Everything that I had been told from various of those that are having experiences that this was to come, we are experiencing, we're in it right now. This whole reset. And what I think is important to say, no matter how dark it gets, and they always say it's always the darkest before the dawn, is that we have to experience this as part of this whole shift in consciousness so that then we can be who we are. We've chosen to be in that new awareness that we're all hoping is going to be part of this quantum shift in consciousness.
[01:19:56.400] - Mary
And the important thing with that, I think, is that it's focusing us on looking within everything you can see is a negative is being trapped inside. What is also doing is getting people to think, to decide what's important. They're looking at their lives and making changes, sometimes big changes because of what's happening. So it's creating this whole shift and change and getting people to focus rather than being on the treadmill as many are, because that's the way the 3D works and what have you. But when people say to me, but Mary, it's just going further and further into this darkness, I'm saying, look, my perspective is this. We have had over the last 80, 9100 years, we've had new aware souls coming to this planet from all over the Cosmos and other dimensions to assist this planet in this huge shift in consciousness. And I said, do you think they would have come to this planet and worked this hard to get us to this point where we're seeing these things happen? I said, you wouldn't incarnate if it was for a waste of time. So there's no way you would say, okay, I'm going to go that far.
[01:21:13.750] - Mary
I'm going to work really hard. But at the end, it's not going to work. You wouldn't do that. You would only come if you knew that it was going to work. That what your contribution, along with everybody else was going to make this shift. These children, with all their gifts and what have you have come in because they know they can use them. So whenever it looks dark, just remember that. Just remember that we have these star seeds everywhere over the planet now, and they're just waiting to bring in their abilities and their awareness and their healing frequencies so that we can be part of this shift. And when Dr. Olson, in her connection was shown the separation of the frequencies, it was about saying some are going to choose to stay in 3D because that's where their soul at the moment wishes to experience. For those that are ready to go to another level of awareness, they will actually do that. And I asked Zack, who's in the book about the new Earth, many people love Zack. Yes. And actually he said, it's already there, Mary. It's waiting. It's already there. So when people get this feeling of just remember, you've come in to experience this, to experience it all, stay with that heart center and just allow it to unfold because you've come here to be part of it.
[01:22:47.500] - Mary
And that's not something to be scared of. It's what your soul has chosen.
[01:22:53.890] - Kara
Well, that's beautiful. And I think that's a perfect place for us to stop. So what a blessing to have you here. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here. And thank you just for stepping into your purpose and your mission and offering a haven for these beautiful souls who are here and need support. Just like what you're providing. It's a huge blessing. And then the information that you're providing to people like me who are just still learning. And it's all so new. And this book is so accessible with the language you use and all the verification that you've done, it's truly a blessing. So thank you. I honor you. I appreciate you so much for being here.
[01:23:49.000] - Mary
Thank you. Mayor Carl, it's been an absolute pleasure to talk with you and also to hear what you're doing as well. And your role in putting information out that is helping people through this journey as well is absolutely vital. So I honor you and your work. Absolutely. And please keep doing what you're doing.
[01:24:12.990] - Kara
Oh, thank you so much. What a blessing. And thank you, dear listener. Thank you for joining. Thank you for your continued support. You've been listening to Mary Rodwell, author of The New Human and I highly encourage you if you found this chat interesting, do yourself a favor and get her book because it's full of I mean, the vibration, the frequency, the wisdom that is coming from Mary and from these star seeds. It's powerful. This book really packs hacks. Hacks. I hate that out share this in your lifetime. This so important for people understanding the shift that we're going through and understanding this beginning to understand multi dimensionality and how there is just so much more happening here than we may have awareness to currently. So it's through works like this that.
[01:25:37.510] - Kara
We expand, we raise our own frequency, we raise our awareness and that in turn helps everybody. It helps humanity. It helps the planet. Anyway, thank you again and I look forward to the next meditation conversation.