155. Angel Tales - Catherine Lanigan

Catherine Lanigan

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This conversation with Catherine Lanigan is full of beautiful wisdom and divine inspiration. She is the international bestselling author of over forty published titles in both fiction and non-fiction, including the novelizations of Romancing the Stone and The Jewel of the Nile. Her book The Sweetest Heart was turned into a Hallmark movie. She has won multiple literary awards and her books have been translated into over a dozen languages. She also has many books which speak directly to the soul, including stories of angel encounters and Chicken Soup for the Soul books. Her life has been full of encounters with beings on the other side of the veil, some of which have been chronicled in her many books of angel stories. Some of the topics you’ll find in this episode include:

  • She shares a traumatic episode from college that halted her writing ambitions for many, many years.
  • The inspiration of her many angel books, including her father’s near-death experience.
  • The diversity of angels which show up based on what is going on in her life at the time.
  • The astrological energy that we are in which is associated with other times in energy where the little people rose up, i.e. 1776 and the Vietnam protests. 
  • How to affect powerful change on this planet at this time.
  • She tells the remarkable story of writing Romancing the Stone and promoting it along with the movie.


[00:00:25.010] - Kara
Hello and welcome to the Meditation Conversation. I'm your host, Kara Goodwin. And I'm so excited today to have the amazing, amazing Catherine Lannigan here with us. So Catherine is the international bestselling author of over 40 published titles in both fiction and nonfiction, including the novelizations of Romancing the Stone and The Jewel of the Nile, as well as over half a dozen anthologies. Her book The Sweetest Heart was turned into a Hallmark movie, and several of her titles have been chosen for the Literary Guild and double day book clubs. She's won multiple literary awards and her books have been translated into over a dozen languages. And I met Catherine recently on my last trip up to see the Mitchell Hedges Crystal skull. You may have heard my previous episode with Bill Holman. And she lives down the street from Bill. So she hosted our group and she was so gracious and amazing. And over time, it came up that she was like this prolific author and had this amazing backstory. But she was just holding space for us the whole time. And it took a while for that to even come to light, eventually telling these stories of these amazing books that she'd written in the supernatural experiences that had happened in the childhood home that we were in.

[00:02:01.470] - Kara
And it came up that she'd written multiple angel stories. It was just too good of an opportunity to share this light intelligence. I just couldn't pass it up. So I had to invite her on. And I'm so happy that she's here with us today. So welcome, Catherine. Thank you so much for being here.

[00:02:21.810] - Catherine
Oh, you're welcome, Carol. It's such a pleasure. And it's so good to see you again. We had so much fun.

[00:02:27.360] - Kara
It was here.

[00:02:29.170] - Catherine
It was a great day.

[00:02:30.470] - Kara
Yes. Beautiful. Well, I'd like to just start by talking talking about your incredible writing career. And I was interested to find out that you got off to a bumpy start with an experience in a creative writing class in University, which nearly stopped your writing career in its tracks. So can you share a little bit about that start?

[00:02:54.210] - Catherine
Sure. I was a freshman at All Girls School. It was a Catholic all girls school in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and highly competitive, by the way. And I was chosen by the head of the English Department to participate in a creative writing seminar that was being given by a traveling professor. He was only there for one semester, and he was teaching just senior literature majors, creative writing. But the head of the English Department got me into his class, and because the previous semester I had written my own Greek myth.

[00:03:41.230] - Kara
Oh, wow.

[00:03:42.400] - Catherine
She felt that. I know, right? I got into his class and after we were there about a month, we had to write our own shorts. And what you did was that after you wrote the short story, then you presented to the class and the class would edit tell you what you needed to fix all that kind of stuff. Basically, in my case, it was throwing the Christians to the lion. Because I was the freshman and they were the seniors. So it was a little bit different than probably being another senior. Yeah, I just have to say that because that's what it was you were getting. But anyway, the night before I was supposed to go into the class. Yeah, exactly. That was my initiation into life. Anyway, the professor called me into his office the night before and said he wanted to talk to me. And it was after dinner. So it was kind of unusual. But anyway, I went to his office and he was this really big guy. I mean, he was like six foot six and the Horn rim glasses and huge. And he had a camel colored jacket on with the leather patches.

[00:05:05.050] - Catherine
It's just like right out of a movie, right. If it had a pipe, that would have just really finished it all off. So anyway, so I went in and had one of those really projected voices. He didn't talk. He boomed. And he said, Come in, Miss Flanagan, and sit down. And so I sat down across the desk from him. And now I'm only like 1718 years old at this time, right. So I'm like, fresh off the farm, right. So anyway, he had my manuscript. I call it Manuscript Now, but my little short story in a little folder. And he takes it and he throws it at me. It sits across the desk, lands in my lap. And he says, Frankly, Ms. Lannigan, you're writing things. And I'm thinking, I was so built up, I thought, for sure this guy is going to tell me how great my story is. And he really loved it and ready for publication. You know, if you're 17, you build all this kind stuff of. This was not what I was expecting. I mean, I went from being top of the world to bottom of the Valley in a crash boom.

[00:06:21.710] - Catherine
And I said, Excuse me, run that by me again. And you said, I have no idea how Sister Dorothy Smith recommended you from my plate. You have absolutely no business being here. These other women have. And they already had jobs waiting for them in New York and Philadelphia. And one girl had a job at the Globe already. Yeah, I know. Another one was at Mademoiselle magazine. I was just like, so anyway, he said, you have no idea of what characterization is. You have no idea about flat. He said, the only thing that I can say about your writing is that your description is nice. All I could think of was Henry James Washington Square when Catherine is talking to her father. And her lover has just run away, has taken the money and left her there. And her father says, look at it this way, Catherine. Your embroidery is nice. That's all I could think of. Oh, my God, my world just ended because I was going to go on. I wanted to be a journalist. I wanted to go around the world this way I could travel and do all these wonderful things and meet really interesting people and do fun things and all that kind of stuff.

[00:07:42.040] - Catherine
Plus I get to write about them and all that went crashing right down the barrel. So anyway, he said, I am very mindful of the fact that you came into this school and you said that you wanted to graduate Summa cum laude, which I did, because in that school, when you came in, they said, what are your aspirations? I said, Well, I want to graduate from a cum laude at 4.0. And they all just went, yeah, sure. Well, he said, there's no way you're going to do it, because he said, It's too late for you to take a fast fail to get out of my class. And I just thought, I've never gotten out of anything in my life. And I'm going to see this through. I'm going to March it through. So he said, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll make a bargain with you. If you promise never to write another thing ever again, I will give you a B in my class and you'll at least get through and maybe you can make that Suma. And I sat there and I just went, It's a deal. And that night I walked out of there and I was crushed.

[00:08:48.310] - Catherine
I was absolutely demoralized and discouraged. I went back to my dorm and I got my little metal waist can and a pack of matches. And I went up to the dorm roof where we had a sun deck up there. And I let it on fire. And I burned the manuscript. And I said, I will never, ever believe in dreams again. And if I can't see it, taste it, chew it, spit it out, and it isn't real. It's not real. And I will never do this again. And so I didn't write anything for 14 years.

[00:09:21.450] - Kara
That's remarkable. Looking back on that, do you have any idea what the impetus was for him to.

[00:09:30.510] - Catherine
You know, for a long time. I mean, I was 30 years old and writing my first book at that time. And I was working in a swimming pool and spa store at the time, and I was a single mom taking care of my baby and all this kind of thing. And I had this customer who was we were doing his backyard for him and stuff, and he was a psychiatrist. And he heard me typing in the back. He said, wow, you're really going away at something still got a report or something. I said, well, actually, I'm writing a book. So anyway, we started talking about it because I've been in this house to design his backyard and all this kind of stuff. So we had gotten to know each other a little bit. And he said, do you know why he did that? And I said, no, I don't. I said, I just guessed that my work was really bad. And he said, that's not the reason. He said that was a violent number one, it was a violent attack because he threw the manuscript at you. He didn't hand it to you. He didn't give it to you as you left or anything.

[00:10:33.430] - Catherine
It hit it across the desk. And he said, So he used force when he tossed it down. He said, So that's a violent attack. Second of all, he said he made a bargain with you, a bargain with the devil. You sold your soul for this bargain. And he said, the fact that he brought the bargain up, he said, tells me everything. And I said, what is it? And he said he saw something in you that made him jealous. And it scared him. And he said, So he had to stop you. So the dark side of him is jealous side had to stop you. And he said he knew he could do it because he had power over you. You're only 1718 years old. And I said, yeah, I was. And he said, and he was the all knowing professor because he was from Princeton or Yale or some Ivy League school on the East Coast. I can't remember now. There's only there for one semester.

[00:11:24.110] - Kara

[00:11:27.090] - Catherine
I have used that. In fact, Jack Canfield today, still, when he starts his lectures and stuff, tells my story, really, that tells my story. So Jack Canfield is the chicken soup for the soul. And he did. And he said, that's one of the most dramatic I'm going to stop you in your track kind of story I've ever heard. And they said for you to go on and do what you did shows a tremendous amount of courage or really stubborn.

[00:12:01.670] - Kara
Well, I mean, you need that. There was something within you. I know it shut you down for a few years. That's such a tender age to have experienced that. And what's interesting is he could have just as easily. Well, maybe not as easily. But another alternative to this story for him could have been like, oh, my gosh, I'm recognizing this amazing talent that's in front of me. I could nurture this and be exactly like an inspiring step.

[00:12:35.450] - Catherine
That's what the head of the English Department was. She was my inspiration. She was my mentor. And about ten years later, after I'd written, I don't know, a dozen books or something, went back to that school and gave a lecture. And she came up to me and she said, I always knew that you would do really well. She said. She said, there's that thing inside you that you were. Even though it took you a while to get there, I knew that you would get it done. And she said, I want you to know two things. Number one is she said, I always knew that you had God's light in your eyes. And number two is I've sent him a copy of every one of your books that you've written. And then when she sent a note to him, she said, I told you so. Oh, I love it. Isn't that great? She was like 100 years old. When you see me in ten years later, she's like 110, right? Yeah. I just thought that was great.

[00:13:35.320] - Kara
That's wonderful.

[00:13:36.770] - Catherine
I love it. She was a doll.

[00:13:41.030] - Kara
Oh, well, thank you for sharing that story, because that is truly inspirational.

[00:13:47.490] - Catherine
I mean, so many of us have somebody somewhere. There's always somebody somewhere in every single person's background that has said, you can't do this. You're not good enough. You don't have what it takes. There's no way you can get there. That's too tough. Nobody's going to listen to you. You have nothing to say. You have nothing to contribute. I hate that line. You have nothing to contribute. So keep your mouth shut.

[00:14:12.030] - Kara

[00:14:13.770] - Catherine
And we all hear those things.

[00:14:15.520] - Kara
We hear them. And they're so powerful. I mean, you can have ten people saying glowing things about you. And one person says something that says that you don't stack up. And which one is stronger.

[00:14:30.660] - Catherine

[00:14:31.270] - Kara
Is the one that you keep telling yourself?

[00:14:33.750] - Catherine
Yes, exactly.

[00:14:34.740] - Kara
You don't keep yourself in check. Yeah. So powerful.

[00:14:39.890] - Catherine

[00:14:40.460] - Kara
So you've written in many genres, and many of your books are designed to directly talk to a person's soul, which is amazing. And you just mentioned about Chicken Soup for the Soul. So you have a couple of Chicken Soup for the Soul books, and you have a lot of angel books, which I mentioned before. Let's talk about the inspiration behind that type of book, that genre.

[00:15:05.850] - Catherine
Okay. Because that is also a really good story. The angel books came about because in 1987, both my parents were at the Grand Canyon and both of them had heart attacks. And my mother had a heart attack. First fell to the ground. The EMTs came, got my mom put her in the ambulance. My dad was driving his car behind. And they got her in because they had to take her to Flagstaff, to the hospital Flagstaff. And so my dad was walking behind the Gurney as they were taking her into ICU, just outside the doors of ICU. He just dropped to the ground and he was dead for 22 minutes. He was dead. They banged on his chest, broke all of his ribs, broke his sternum, broke his collarbone, trying to revive him. Mother said, I don't know how many times they use the paddles, but I know those more than twice.

[00:16:08.920] - Kara
Wow. So she had just had a heart attack, and they're in the hospital for that. And then he has a heart attack. Oh, my God.

[00:16:18.030] - Catherine
That's a lot I know, isn't it? When I say I have a story, I'm not kidding. Anyway, so my dad is dead for 22 minutes. So I was living in Houston at the time. My sister was living in Chicago. My sister called me and she said, mom and dad both had heart attacks. But Mother is okay. Mother is okay. She called me and she said, you're going to get on a plane. You're going to fly to Phoenix. I'm going to get on a plane. I'm going to fly to Phoenix. We'll meet at the airport in Phoenix. And she said, I booked us a flight, take us from Phoenix to Flagstaff so we can see Daddy because he was in ICU. And they said he's not going to make it at the time. Now, this was back in the 80s when if there was a thunderstorm, you still flew today. They're like, oh, we saw both the lightning over in the distance, 500 miles away from Camp Fly. So that's not what happened back then. It's like it's just a thunderstorm. We'll make it. So we just fly low, right? Anyway, so I met my sister in Phoenix and then we flew up to Flagstaff and it was about midnight by the time we rented the car, got the car, got to the hospital and walked into IC and the nurses and everybody knew we were coming, so it wasn't a problem or anything like that.

[00:17:34.660] - Catherine
And we walked in and my dad said he goes, oh, Kathy, you're here? And I said, I said, Daddy, how are you doing? He said, I'm so glad to hear that. I have so much to tell you. And I said, you have so much to tell me. And he goes, yeah. And I said, what do you have to tell me? And he said, well, first of all, I have to tell you that I love you. Now, I was 43 years old when he said this, and that was the first time in my life that my father said, I love you without me prompting it first. It was always, I love you, too, not just coming out and saying, I love you both. My sister and I just went, what? Oh, wow, that was a big deal. So then anyway, what happened was he was dead for 22 minutes and he went to the other side. He said, Well, I went to the other side. Now, he was a very strict Catholic. And Catholics don't call heaven the other side. They call it heaven. I said, you mean heaven? He goes, no, that's not what they call it.

[00:18:35.600] - Catherine
They call it the other side. And I said, really? How interesting is that? Which I knew that, but he didn't know that. I said, So did you see Angels over there? And he said, no, I was talking to the being of light. And I said, the being of light? And he said, yeah, that's who I was talking to. Now, my father was one of the most brilliant men I've ever met. In my entire life with FA Beta Kappa, he had a photographic memory. He was the county attorney here was an attorney all his life. He was absolutely brilliant. So this is not just some body feeling this stuff off. Very intellectual man telling me this. Exactly. Cataloging what he saw and all the details that he saw when he saw them and what he went through. So he goes, being a light told me that you're going to write a book. And I said, well, since I've already written about ten of them, that would not be all that tough. And he goes, no, you're going to write a different kind of book. And I said, what kind of book am I going to write?

[00:19:47.820] - Catherine
And he said, you're going to start writing books about angel. And he said, you're going to take people's story, all of our stories, of our family, all your stories. He said, all those stories that your mother and I did not believe you when they happened, when you saw Angels and you talk to Angels and we didn't believe you. You're going to write them all down and then you're going to catalog them and you're going to put them in a book. And he said, and then when you die, you will be judged on this. And I was like, okay, my first thought was, I need to get cracking and quick, right? Yeah.

[00:20:26.200] - Kara
Apparently heart attacks are going around right now at this point, so you better get done.

[00:20:31.160] - Catherine
Yeah, exactly. I was like, two of them down, so I better get ready, right? Anyway, so I said to him, I said, Well, I said, did you talk to Angels? And he said. He goes, no, just the being of light. And he said, Angels, they are those other guys. They're not beings of light. And I go, okay. He goes, Nope, Angels are a species all onto their own. And he said, they're there. He said, But I didn't talk to any he said, they came to talk to me about you. And I said, well, did they tell you anything about I said, your near death experience? What about you? And he said, they sent me back to Earth because I have to tell the people that I love, that I love them, and that you're never to let any opportunity go by in a day and not tell the people that you love, that you love them. And he said, I didn't do that. And he said, they're sending you back until I get that done. And I said, really? And he said, yeah. Now he lived for five more years after that. He had somewhere around five to seven strokes and maybe around a dozen, 15 heart attacks.

[00:21:46.740] - Catherine
In that five years, he was in and out of the hospital constant. But every time I would call because I was still in Houston, I had to go back to Houston and I would call and he would say, do you want to talk to your mother? And I say, yes, I do. And he goes, well, not before I tell you that I love you. And I go, I love you, Daddy. So he did a good job. And you were in my house. You could feel all the energies and stuff. And so my dad and my mom are around in the house a lot, especially when all of us were gathered together. We're all the same kind of energy and everything. They like to come in when that happens. That was really special.

[00:22:34.720] - Kara
That is a fascinating story, isn't it?

[00:22:38.750] - Catherine
Because here he dies, his near death experience, and all these messages that they gave him are all about me. Yeah. They said that was part of my destiny. They told him what my specific things that I had to do at specific times in my life, and they were my destiny and that I could not I had to learn to just follow my destiny, follow my heart, follow my destiny. And when I just kind of like let everything go. And then when it happens, then I jump, which I do. I'm big on the jump thing. Yeah.

[00:23:15.460] - Kara
Well, the other really fascinating thing with that is that I don't know how old he was in 87.

[00:23:28.090] - Catherine
He was 69. He was 69 years old.

[00:23:30.540] - Kara
So he's had 69 years entrenched in his religion, where he had his ideas about how it all worked in heaven.

[00:23:43.540] - Catherine

[00:23:44.250] - Kara
And then he has this one experience that lasts 22 minutes, and he doesn't question it. Everything turns on his head and he's like this. And he knows it goes from belief to a knowingness, and it doesn't exactly match up with belief.

[00:24:03.690] - Catherine
Was that's right?

[00:24:05.320] - Kara
Which is so powerful. This is like I love hearing about near death experiences because of that. There's this universality. There's this wisdom that is universal that comes through. And these people, it's so powerful. They don't question it's a knowing.

[00:24:25.010] - Catherine
Yes, it is. It's an annoying and it's an acceptance. And then when he died, when he actually was in the hospital dying for the last time, I kept saying to him, I said, Are you really sure that this time you're really going to die? And he goes, yeah, I think this is it. They're here. They said, they're coming for me. They were in the room. The Angels were in the room. And I had flown up a couple of times when he had had either a heart attack or heart attack. One time I came up when he had a stroke and he couldn't talk. And he's and I said, Are you going to get well? And he goes, yes. He said, I still got to play another round of golf.

[00:25:06.310] - Kara
Oh, wow.

[00:25:07.870] - Catherine
And we live across from the golf course, as you know. Right. And do the deal. Yeah. But anyway, one time that I came up, he had had a heart attack, and he was in not in ICU, but in a regular room. And I flew up, and I was sitting there, and I was reading a magazine. And my mother was sitting next to him. He was in the bed. And then she was sitting in a chair next to him. And she was doing some needlepoint or something. I said, Daddy, there's a little boy that's standing next to you. And he said, really? What does he look like? And I said, well, he's about maybe two and a half years old. And he's got little Oxfords that lay up above the ankle and short pants and suspenders and a white shirt. And I said, It looks like it's like 19, 12, 13. Like World War One. Like a little boy would be dressed in World War I. Well, my father was born in 1950. And he said, what else does he look like? I said, he's got red hair and blue eyes. He goes, Blue eyes like mine?

[00:26:25.690] - Catherine
And I said, yes. And he said, Blue eyes like yours? I said, yes. And I said, he says, his name is Andrew. My mother starts laughing, and she goes, this is crazy. He says, he's your brother. And the mother laughs again. And she says, that's ridiculous. Her father never had a brother whose name is Andrew. Now, my parents were married for 43 years at this point, right? My dad turns to my mother and says, I never told you I had a brother whose name was Andrew. And he died when he was two and a half years old of the Scarlet fever. He had red hair and blue eyes.

[00:27:05.670] - Kara
Oh, my gosh, I've got chills all over.

[00:27:08.510] - Catherine
See, I got chills right now. I'm like, wow. Oh, my gosh. It was right in the room. And I said, well? He said. And then my dad says, So, is he here to come get me? And I said, no. He just wanted me to know who he was. And I said, no, he's going now. My mom is like, freaking out.


[00:27:31.000] - Catherine
And then my dad says, Catherine, there is a human being sitting on your head. And I said, really? And then all of a sudden, I saw the corner of my eye. I see this woman standing next to me. And I said, well, she's not sitting on my head. She was standing behind me. Yeah, that's right. And I said, Is she in a writing habit? A Brown and velvet Lapel's? Writing habit? And he said, yes. And I said, she got boots on and a little hat on her head. And he said, yes. And he said, she has big eyes. Really big eyes like you have. And I said, yes. And I said, Ask her if her name is Barbara. And he said, she's nodding her head yes. Her clothes are really expensive. And I said, yes, they are. And my mother said, Barbara? Who's that? And I said, she's related to you, mother. And she goes, that's my Aunt Barbara. And I said, yes. And I said, can you see her? And she said, no, I don't see anything. My dad says I can see her plain as day. And he said, But I'm between the world.

[00:28:43.150] - Catherine
Wow. Yeah.

[00:28:46.110] - Kara
I have full body chills all over. This is amazing.

[00:28:51.010] - Catherine
Isn't that cool?

[00:28:52.870] - Kara
Yeah. Thank you for sharing. I love stories like this. And this is one of the things when we were at your home that came up about you've been so you grew up in the house that you're now living in, and you've lived all over the place in between. But since you were little, you've seen Angels there. You were talking about you mentioned you've got that golf course across the street from you, and you have different portals where you see different dimensional beings coming through, and then you have the mirror that's there, too, that kind of people can see things in. So does anything call out to you about your home that you would like to share in that regard?

[00:29:39.410] - Catherine
Just, you know, the whole house is a sacred space. It's very protective. There's a lot of Angels. When I do my meditation, I'm always asking particular Angels to come in and literally stand on the roof of the house, protect it, and make sure that nothing negative gets in. When I do invite someone into my house, it is a sacred place. It's a sacred space. And normally I meditate to make sure that those people are allowed to come in. They have to be of a certain frequency and energy to come in. I don't want those energies to be violated. Right. Yeah. I've had times when something not so nice has tried to come in, and they have to either pound on the door, knock on the door, but they have to ask entry. They can't just come in. So nothing negative can come in. So that's why when you all were here, it felt so good. Everybody was here said, it feels so good in this house.

[00:31:02.330] - Kara
It did.

[00:31:03.830] - Catherine
I have a girlfriend that she flew up from Texas, and she had not been here. She and I have been together for over 40 years. And she came in and she said, the walls of this house drip love.

[00:31:16.430] - Kara
That's a beautiful way to say it, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, because you had all the ambience as well, because it was Christmas time and you had it just beautifully decorated. So it felt like this magical just by using your physical eyes, it felt like this magical playground.

[00:31:37.130] - Catherine
That's what I like to skip it. It's a playground. Really? Yes.

[00:31:41.300] - Kara
That's so funny, because I was like, that's a random word for me to say. But that's the only thing I couldn't think of another word.

[00:31:47.790] - Catherine
But that's exactly right. It's the playground. When you come here, you should have fun. You should have something good to eat, something nice to drink, some pleasurable things to do in the wintertime, I've always got a fire going in the fireplace. And in the summertime, there's always lots and lots of flowers from the garden.

[00:32:10.230] - Kara
It was like this kind of Crystal, like when I look back on it, it's like this crystallized experience where I was sort of plucked out of normal life, and then I got to be there in that experience. So it's amazing. But you shared that since you were little, like little little. You've seen Angels in the house three years old.

[00:32:32.410] - Catherine

[00:32:33.110] - Kara
And you were just kind of like, okay, there's that thing because you have no context for it. But would you like to share a little bit?

[00:32:43.470] - Catherine
That's so pretty. That's really nice. You have really pretty luminous wings. How nice. I want some of those. You get to have rings. And I don't. I was only three years old. We moved in in October right before Halloween when I was three years old. And as I was explaining at the time, when Bill and I were here, he was down at the end of the street and I'm at the other end. I'm on the far west side and he's on the far east side. And there were not a lot of houses around here. This was an Apple Orchard. The golf course was all farmland, and it was designed right after World War One. And it took about a decade to build the golf course. So it opened in the 1920s, actually 1929, something like that. It was always just this beautiful. So much nature. We climbed trees, Apple trees, pear trees, peach trees. We just had everything around it. It was like nothing to go out and get some peaches, go get some pears. I'll make a pear salad for dinner.

[00:34:06.890] - Kara
Well, in angel playground land, yes, of course.

[00:34:10.020] - Catherine
Right. And that's the way that it was from the time I was three. That's when I saw my first angel was in my bedroom. I just was putting my dolls in my cradle. My father had found somebody to make a cradle for me for my doll. And so I had just put my dolls in my cradle and I turned around and boom, here's this six, seven foot tall, beautiful, gorgeous angel. Androgynous I'm going pinch off as a guy or girl, but long hair. And I'm going, well, that long hair, that's got to be something, but just glowing and just white and gold everywhere. And I said, who are you? I'm an angel, and I'm here to protect you and to love you and to let you know that you are always loved. And I was just like, well, that's really nice. Are you here to play with me? And have you seen that same angel?

[00:35:21.350] - Kara
Because I know you see different things, especially in that house.

[00:35:24.490] - Catherine
Have you seen that same one multiple times there's a couple of times when I've seen that angel very sad. And I did see that angel once when I was very sick. And so that angel came. But I see so many other Angels now, a lot of it does because I know that it does change. And when I'm supposed to do something different for the world than different Angels come in right now, I've got a lot of almost strong warrior kind of Angels, like the Michael Archangel energy coming in. We got to do battle because we're in the middle of a spiritual battle in the world right now. Even if you're in the Earth, there's this literally a spiritual battle going on. And we have to be very strong to fight this negative force that wants us to just go away. And there's some of us are just going to say, not quite yet.

[00:36:37.430] - Kara
Yes, that's interesting. So you get the different it's almost like, well, just it applies to whatever the sort of theme of what you're going through. I mean, that makes sense. You've got different.

[00:36:56.850] - Catherine
Some of us come in and we really do have a destiny that's to take care of a lot of people or to change the world. I'm a history major, along with being a literary major. When you really look at the context of societies at different times in our history and everything, literally one person, two people can change the course of a war. They can change the world just by one thing that they did when they just said, I'm going to keep going on my desk. I don't know if I show it to you, but I have a little gold thing that says, never, never, never, never quit. And he changed the course of the world because he would not quit when everyone else was sleeping. He wasn't. He was working. He was doing the things that he knew he could do to try and change the score. And it changed all of history.

[00:37:54.330] - Kara

[00:37:56.010] - Catherine
Otherwise, we'd have an alternative history. And right now I know that there are people out there that can do what they do, and one or two people, they can change everything that we're going through. This tsunami of negativity that's going on where I just feel like, how do you hold it back? Well, you know what? Put your hand up and just pray it back.

[00:38:18.750] - Kara
Thank you for that. Because sometimes it does feel discouraging that there's not like I don't see like a proper leader right now for the light side. There are a lot of people coming. It just seems like there are all these factions and there doesn't seem to be like, oh, all we need to do is follow this for the masses is what I mean, right? It's encouraging and inspiring to remember this truth. Of course this is true, but it can be easy to forget that in these times.

[00:38:58.560] - Catherine
Yeah, it is. The thing that a lot of people don't understand is astrologically. There is an energy that right now that is the same energy that existed in 1770 617, 70, 1960, when Vietnam started and back when I was in College going, yeah, I'll wear a hard hat to get to the library, that kind of thing. People are throwing bottles at everybody. They didn't care who. They just like, so that energy is the energy of the little people rising. There is not a leader. There's not a leader anywhere with anything. And the one thing that we need to understand as being light workers is that we have a tremendous amount of power and a tremendous amount of power that as a group, as a group, if we put our hands up and say, I am giving this prayer, this love, this energy to hold off all the negative, we can push it away. We can do that. Enough of us can pray. Enough of us can send that love and that light to the world that we can change it because this is our turn. This is not the turn of a leader to come up because we get a leader.

[00:40:22.510] - Catherine
And you just go, that guy's not doing anything. And that girl's not doing anything because this isn't their turn, right? This is the time of the Patriot. This is the time of the French Revolution, where the rebel rose and they made a difference. They changed everything. Because it's the time of the little people. And we are the little people. But we have a huge amount of power. We have so much light and so much energy. And I'm getting very passionate about it.

[00:40:51.820] - Kara
Yes. But I feel it. I can feel it. Yeah.

[00:40:56.170] - Catherine
I can do so much.

[00:40:57.950] - Kara
Yes. And what I love with that, too, is that you're talking about it behind the scenes where it's not even like you don't even have to go to battle on Twitter. This is not about even communicating with your neighbor to convince them of your stance. This is in the ether, and you have the power through your thought, through your prayers, through your heart, through your heart.

[00:41:26.780] - Catherine
You take your heart. You take what it is that you really want. You want the best for your family, the best for your children, your children's children. The best for the world. You want the crops to grow. I want to see everyone have enough food. I mean, I've got this whole thing, but I want no child, no human being to ever go thirsty. There should be water for everybody. There should be food for everybody. And I can make that happen by just sitting in my living room and meditating and saying, I am putting all this love, all this light, all this abundance around the entire world for every single animal, plant and human being that exists. And that's all we got to do. But we just got to have more people do it. That's all.

[00:42:09.300] - Kara

[00:42:10.690] - Catherine
We can do it.

[00:42:11.660] - Kara
Right. And to be diligent of not letting the physical world try to paint a different picture.

[00:42:20.690] - Catherine
Yeah. Because that's not real. It's false. That's not what's real. What's really real is what is in our hearts.

[00:42:30.070] - Kara

[00:42:30.880] - Catherine
I mean, even the most negative person that I can think of, and I can think of a few of them. I know I'm personally, there is still some good there. And I see that little sprout of good, and I keep seeing it grow and flourish and blossom into beautiful roses and everything where it just overtakes that person. I know I can turn that person around by just sending it love and sending it some nourishment, because in every person, if you're a human being on this Earth, somewhere in there, there is something that is good. All souls are beautiful. All souls are beautiful in God's eyes, right? We are.

[00:43:12.670] - Kara
Yeah. Thank you. That's good. So let's switch gears just a little bit, because I love the story about the novelizations of Romancing the Stone and the jewel of the Nile. And you're listed as the ghost writer for those books. So tell us about how that came about.

[00:43:37.350] - Catherine
Okay. I'm actually not a ghost writer. Back in the day, there was a thing called the novelization. And you took the screenplay. You took the screenplay, and then you turned it into a book. So a ghost writer is somebody that actually writes the book, and there's no screenplay or anything like that. They actually write the book, and then they just change their name. The name that's on the Romancing the Stone, it says, Written by Joan Wilder. Well, that's the name of the character in the book. That was Michael Douglas idea to advertise both the book and the film at the same time. He wanted to have Kathleen Turner and Kathryn Lanigan be the two Joan Wilder. And then we would go out and we would do all the advertising. She was going to promote the film. And then I promoted the book, which we did. We did do that. He sent me halfway across the world to promote the film and the book, which we did. And those are some wild experiences. Oh, yeah, it was great. But anyway, what happened was that my agent called me one day. I had just signed a contract for a very big, like an epic kind of book, a multi generational saga thing that I knew was going to take me two to three years to write.

[00:45:05.630] - Catherine
But anyway, she said, I just got off the phone with your editor, and she said, I've got a proposition for you. We want you to put your big book aside and then do this project that we've got. And I said, well, what's the project? And she said, well, it's a novelization. I said, what's that? And she goes, how the hell should I know? I've never done one. Yeah. And she said, Well, Michael Douglas is shooting this film called Romancing the Stone. Kathleen Turner is in it. Danny DeVito is in it. And she said, So what he wants is he wants to take this screenplay and then turn it into a book, and then the book is going to come out two months before the film comes out. And now, this was in August of 1983. I want you to call Page, your editor. And she said she's going to give you all the details since you don't know what it's mobilization is. She says she'll tell you everything you don't need to worry about.

[00:46:16.280] - Kara
And this is a book editor called Page.

[00:46:20.850] - Catherine
How perfect is that?

[00:46:22.460] - Kara
Did you write that?

[00:46:26.290] - Catherine
It can't make the stuff up, right?

[00:46:27.720] - Kara
I guess not.

[00:46:30.610] - Catherine
So I called Paige, and she was the acquisitions editor for Avon Books at the time. And so she says, yes, we've got this. And she said, you're the only person in my stable that can do this work. And I said, why is that? And she said, because you can write that. I go, really? So how fast are we talking? She goes, well, you know, she said, I read the screenplay. It's 99 pages. It's really cute. I think you're going to love it. Now, this is before there was FedEx. Got to remember, this is before FedEx. There's no overnight delivery or anything. They're in New York, I'm in Houston. It's a little ways away from stuff, right? So she says, what I need you to do is you take the screenplay. And she said, you need to fill in all the blanks and give us the description and stuff. She said, there'll be a little bit of research and everything. And I said, okay. And I said, well, how fast are we talking here that we got to have this done? She goes, well, that's a little bit of a story there. And I said, 28 days.

[00:47:41.160] - Catherine
I go, 28 days. This is on a typewriter with correct paper, right? There's no computer, there's no cut and paste. There's none of this kind of. They're not even pagination back then. You had to put the number at the bottom of the page. Well, anyway, so I said, 28 days. And she goes, well, first you have to read the screenplay and see if you want to do it, because she said, if you don't want to do it, we're not going to take on the project. I went, okay. So now what there was was blue Label. And so Blue Label, the United States Post Office could get you something in three days. So it was kind of like priority mail now, but it was all blue label. So anyway, I get the screenplay. And of course, it's Darling. It's absolutely Darling. And I loved it. So I called Page back and I said, I really liked it. And I said, I'm going to take it on. I'm going to take on the project. And I said, but now I've got three days, you know. Now I'm down three days. And she said, yes. And then you got to allow three days off of that in order to get it back to me.

[00:48:51.090] - Catherine
So I'm going, all right. Now I'm down to like 21, 20 days to write this thing. So I was working at the time. I had to get a sabbatical from work because I was at the typewriter 15 hours a day to write this thing. And I still had to do some the whole thing takes place in Columbia, right? I've never been to Columbia. I don't know anything about Columbia. I've been to New York, but it's a little bit different.

[00:49:15.530] - Kara
I guess.

[00:49:18.990] - Catherine
Looking at all the birds and all this kind of stuff that he's got. Anyway, so I said the page. I said, all right. Now before I go, I need to know exactly how long this needs to be because I've only got now 20 days. So I'm taking 200 pages, right? She goes, you know, the usual 360 pages. I said, like a usual book. Oh, my gosh, are you kidding me? Yeah. So then I called my agent, Forget, and I said, you're not going to believe this. I said, I have to have this thing done in 20 days and it's got to be 365 pages. She goes, you can do it. I know you can do it. And I told her I had already quit my job. And she goes, One thing I want you to remember when you start writing this thing. And I said, what is that? And she said, if by some fluke that this thing this movie becomes is a hit and becomes a classic, it better be the best damn writing you've ever done. And I went, oh, no pressure there.


[00:50:25.500] - Catherine
She goes, but don't worry about it. Who's ever going to go see a movie called Romancing the Stone? Many people for like 30 years.

[00:50:35.820] - Kara

[00:50:37.290] - Catherine
Right. So anyway, I did. And of course, it did become a hit. And I did go around the world to promote it across the United States. I was on bookstore for like a month alone, Canada. And then they sent me to Sicily and Rome and Italy to promote the book over there.

[00:50:57.740] - Kara
Darn it.

[00:51:00.030] - Catherine
Oh, my God. From there, then they know more than walked out of the theater when they had just the preview. Just the critics were seeing it before even the theater. The book became a best seller within ten days of it being out on the market. Seriously, I was on more television and radio shows than you can possibly imagine. I got laryngitis. I was like, oh, my gosh. But we did. We promoted the heck out of that book. And the book was on all the best seller list. I mean, we really did follow with the book. And then that did help the film get some traction before. So he was right. It was a good idea. They were very popular at that time. And then as they were walking out of the theater when the critics were all booing, it on already. 20th century Fox had come to them and said, all right, we want to do a sequel. So they were already talking about, which became jewel denial later, a year later. And then, of course, because I was already the novelist that I'd done the novelization for the first one I got.

[00:52:19.810] - Kara
Oh, wow. That's amazing.

[00:52:22.450] - Catherine

[00:52:23.590] - Kara
So I know that you've stayed very busy for a long time. What can we look forward to next from Catherine Lannigan?

[00:52:36.620] - Catherine
Well, the next thing is I'm doing my teleplays and series On Lily and Zane, which is a series of adventures that are spiritual and Galactic at the same time. A lot of fun. There's three kids in the Lily and Zane adventures, Lily and then Zane, and then there's little brother Teddy, and all three of the kids have Psy powers. So they're not super kids Where they're like a Marvel comic or anything. These are real kids in real stories, real situations, how they can get in and out of trouble. There's always some bumbling, very funny bad guys, and then there's some really bad guys, which is always the case. Louie's father is an archaeologist, and he's always finding some really great treasures and stuff that are kind of interesting and everything is extremely well researched. So we've got real treasures that real people are after, but as always, the kids always find something else, along with the pearls and the rubies and the sapphires. They're really fun. They're really fun. So we're trying to get that picked up as a television.

[00:54:07.760] - Kara
Oh, cool.

[00:54:09.250] - Catherine
Yeah. It's really exciting.

[00:54:15.590] - Kara
How can people access your work?

[00:54:19.370] - Catherine
Well, there's several things that are still up on Amazon. I have a website, www. Dot. Catherinelanigan, that's Catherine with a cinelinigan.com and you can just Google me and you can find Barnes and nobles have plenty of books and stuff, though. Okay, great.

[00:54:36.200] - Kara
Well, I'll put a link to your website in the show notes So that people can easily access that.

[00:54:42.190] - Catherine
Thank you.

[00:54:43.380] - Kara
Well, what a joy it has been. This has just really been so fulfilling. I just feel like I had a really nourishing meal or something. This has been really great. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing all your wisdom and stories with us.

[00:55:03.110] - Catherine
And thank you for having me. This is so much fun, and you got to let me know when you're going to come up again and visit.

[00:55:08.820] - Kara
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I can't wait. Will be great. Thank you so much.

[00:55:15.600] - Catherine
All right. You have a great day and a blessed day.

[00:55:18.140] - Kara
Thank you. You too. And thank you for listening. Please share this episode spread Catherine's light and wisdom and check out all of her books and offerings that are on her website. I have the link in the show notes, And I look forward to the next meditation conversation.

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